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NEW Poker After Dark - Week of July 21 - Nets v. Vets discussion thread and poll NEW Poker After Dark - Week of July 21 - Nets v. Vets discussion thread and poll
View Poll Results: Who Will Win "Nets v. Vets"?
Brian "sbrugby" Townsend
48 15.58%
Doyle Brunson
33 10.71%
Tom "Durrr" Dwan
95 30.84%
Johnny Chan
54 17.53%
Huck Seed
69 22.40%
Andrew "good2cu" Robl
9 2.92%

07-25-2008 , 08:59 PM
He was making very large bet-sizes in almost every situation IIRC, and betting/raising smaller is way less exploitable than betting really big. In most cases he is going to get the same results by raising 4-5xbb as he would 2.5xbb, he just loses a ton more when he runs into a hand. A pretty consistent raise/bet size in all situations doesn't necessarily make you easier to read, that depends on a lot of other factors.
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07-25-2008 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPOner
with all this said... i dont get all the hate in this thread
i have a theory








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07-25-2008 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerg rush
i have a theory








LMFAO that **** is solid gold A++
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07-25-2008 , 09:19 PM
LOL. Nice.
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07-25-2008 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatJustHappened
Tweeden needs to get fired b4 they film anything new (unless the whole season is already taped).

I liked Shanna, Marianella kinda irked me but she was ok (waited 2 long to show some skin as well ) but Tweeden is so Fn generic.

She works on HUC but not something this "intimate"

+1 for the rack though.

p.s What happened to Shaana?
think she got pregnant. it's what happens to girls with great racks eventually.
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07-25-2008 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snelgrave
think she got pregnant. it's what happens to girls with great racks eventually.
Yea, all that cyber sperm that the degen poker players flung at her musta took aholt...
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07-25-2008 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snelgrave
think she got pregnant. it's what happens to girls with great racks eventually.
She is creating more Shanas - important work I think we can all agree.
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07-25-2008 , 11:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
You know, if he hadn't opened the table by talking trash about a player not even in the game, I would have more sympathy. I hate Hellmuth, but how classless do you have to be when you start talking about how you would sell everything to play a guy, and you mean that as a put down, not a sign up respect.

It was clear from the way Durr and Robl started that they had no respect for the veteran players. Gosh, I hope they don't get their clocks cleaned.
You realise, despite the name, nets v vets is not a team game right?

Chan was clearly joking along about how Phil sucked and im pretty sure everyone else on the table was laughing along at the prospect of playing Phil HU.

Disrespect Phil, yes. Disrespect Doyle and other great live players, nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hahalolvnhgg
Could a ICM junkie or SnGWhiz user please analyze the Q9o shove by Townsend ($10,950) vs. Durrr's call with A4o from BB (1000-2000)? They were each saying the other's move was automatic, but SbR said his shove was iffy and Durrr was obviously hesitant to call.
ICM doesnt apply in a winner take all, cEV=$EV just like a cash game. Both the shove and the call are totally fine (the call is slightly closer, but given the large amount of chips behind its still very +EV).

Fwiw, depending on running antes and how you judge FE of Doyle and Durrrr Brian can shove any two cards and be +EV in that spot. Certainly Q9 is uber +EV. I suspect him saying it was iffy was a mix of having little tourney experience and him not wanting to appear to have made an error on TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kashmoney
Allen Cunninham wrote about situations like Durr's recently on FTP...Allen has an established record winning in tourneys....only difference in allen's hypo is when you are on button, durr was in small blind here (you need to be a little bit tighter ovbiously on button, because there are still two people behind you to act..but not a huge difference with Allen's hypo)

He suggests if raise 1) represents more than 10% of your stack and 2) you have a hand 88+ or AQ+, higher, to move all-in over the top


http://www.chrisferguson.com/tip/147...ing+the+Blinds

Durr has 39,000 in chips..so the 3,700 raise did not represent 10% of his stack...furthermore, he was not in Allen's 88+, AQ+ range....that said, durr, only had one person behind him here, not two....this is a close call
Judging how correct a play is based on one FTP article is a bit naive, no offense intended. Its impossible to say if the QJ resteal shove was good or bad without truly knowing the dynamics at the time, an edited TV show just cant tell you the recent play clearly enough. Its not an auto move either way, but if those chip numbers are correct then its never amazingly bad given the winner take all pay out, especially with the previous talk with Q9 v Ax which would likely have tightened up Brian's calling range.

------

Also, re the KJ hand, no one can truly say it was an aweful play unless you are being extremely results orientated, but imo its close and table dynamics would push it either way. I trust durrrr knew what he was doing there, its just one of those spots similar to Brians where if Doyle had Ax he looks great and picks up chips, but found him with the nuts that particular time.

The worst option is certainly raising to 9k "to find out where you are" like that Paulie guy said. That is beyond terribad and gives amazing context to the times he gave commentary to what happened at the table.
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07-26-2008 , 01:09 AM
WTF is up with all the open completing in the SB?
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07-26-2008 , 01:50 AM
The KJ durr hand, I'm pretty sure it's either a push or fold situation.

Personally I like folding there, but I don't think pushing is terrible or even bad.

I think the push play is better in a standard SNG with a 3 player payout bubble, because you typically have even more fold equity on the bubble.

The fact that the game is winner take all would mean Doyle is going to call with alot more hands.
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07-26-2008 , 03:12 AM
such a sick slowroll by brian. I doubt he ever folds top 2 in a loldonkament. even if it completes every straight that calls on turn (67,JT) would he honestly just open shove when it hit? he doesn't have a set there and the only better 2 pair is A9 so... call already.

and to all those saying, well duh, you can see the holecards.. you have basically the 4th nuts (since you can rule out sets) and you probably could rule out A9 since of doyle's little comment (seemed he didn't like the card).

also, i don't like doyle's open shove on river since i don't think Brian is going to call him with a hand he beats since Brian is going to bet flop a large percentage of the time with Q5/Q8/85/55/88/QQ (sets are the only thing he might check behind with) and he's smart/nitty enough to get away from 2 pair on river.
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07-26-2008 , 03:19 AM
it was basically for the whole tournament. god forbid he think it over for 3 minutes

and do you realize by saying yourself that you don't like doyle's open shove with that hand, you're giving even more merit to townsend thinking it over? brian thought he might do this with weaker two pairs like 89, but was uncertain if he really would, precisely because it's so hard for those hands to get called by worse and probably a bad play by doyle

so basically he only beats a few two pairs, possibly misplayed by doyle, and bluffs. do you think doyle is bluffing there like ever? i don't. he probably figured he was calling, but i don't in the least blame him for taking his time

i was rooting for him the whole time too, sweet comeback
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07-26-2008 , 04:38 AM
^ Agreed.

Brian got a bit lucky to come back but he played well and luck ran in his favor, he deserved it as much as anyone.
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07-26-2008 , 05:06 AM
Shows how much Gavin Smith knows.

Townsend seems like a genuine nice guy. Good for him.
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07-26-2008 , 06:13 AM
Such an awesome surprise after Gavin's false spoiler.
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07-26-2008 , 07:17 AM
What an amazing, amazing HU match. I think it might even top Juanda-Cunningham as my favorite HU poker to ever grace the TV screen.

First of all, the 3 best players at the table were the 3 left standing in the penultimate episode. I thought Huck was sitting in the weeds waiting to pounce the entire tournament (and history shows that PAD is often won by those who play super tight early), but he never ended up getting the spot to do it. But once Townsend and Brunson made it to HU, it was an hour of me getting schooled at NLHE.

Such a great contrast of styles (one thing this match had over Juanda-Cunningham, which was awesome because the guys play so similarly) -- the math wizard vs. the gut genius, and one kind of experience vs. an entirely different kind of experience. I don't think any internet player could have better represented the 'nets better than Townsend, who was 100% class all the way. And Doyle more than held his own; he got coolered in a couple of spots but made several nice bluffs (getting Brian to lay down 88 was pretty hot, and the c/r with T8o on the Kxx board vs. Brian's A9 was even hotter) and only a few misreads (his instincts were off on the 94o hand where Brian shoved the As river). Such great poker. How can you not love this game when two guys like that have a match like that?
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07-26-2008 , 07:23 AM
Great comeback by Townsend, Doyle was destroying him and he stayed calmed and played well.

I would pay a lot of money to hang out with Huck Seed for a day. Play some golf, basketball, poker, and smoke a lot of herb. That would be such an awesome day! Huck is just the definition of cool imo.
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07-26-2008 , 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker
First of all, the 3 best players at the table were the 3 left standing in the penultimate episode.
very nice usage of the word 'penultimate.' color me impressed
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07-26-2008 , 09:24 AM
Townsend won ?
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07-26-2008 , 09:52 AM
this was a great surprise after i thought the vets would win due to gavin smith, and doyles big chiplead.. awesome. i was secretly rooting for a 9 on the river in the final hand

doyle and townsend are both cool
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07-26-2008 , 10:35 AM
Just started watching this friday's episode, does anyone actually like the A9 bet by Brain on K high flop??. I know he's a great hu player but from all coaching videos I've seen and from playing hu alot, A high is a standard check back in that spot, because raggedy K high flops get c/raised alot and he's good there so often. I don't know why Brian bet.

Good move by doyle though.
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07-26-2008 , 11:09 AM
Pleeeeease can more people snap fold hands like Brian was. I really appriciated he didnt have to "hollywood" every decision. Very refreshing to watch and if more people did it tv poker (and live games in general) would be far better.
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07-26-2008 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by exec771
Just started watching this friday's episode, does anyone actually like the A9 bet by Brain on K high flop??. I know he's a great hu player but from all coaching videos I've seen and from playing hu alot, A high is a standard check back in that spot, because raggedy K high flops get c/raised alot and he's good there so often. I don't know why Brian bet.

Good move by doyle though.
I was thinking the same thing when I saw that c-bet.

Might have been ok with stack sizes though. Forced Brunson to make a pretty ballsy play. Pretty sure BT would have looked him up lite there.


Great HU epsiode by 2 of the classier guys in poker.
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07-26-2008 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by private joker
What an amazing, amazing HU match. I think it might even top Juanda-Cunningham as my favorite HU poker to ever grace the TV screen.

First of all, the 3 best players at the table were the 3 left standing in the penultimate episode. I thought Huck was sitting in the weeds waiting to pounce the entire tournament (and history shows that PAD is often won by those who play super tight early), but he never ended up getting the spot to do it. But once Townsend and Brunson made it to HU, it was an hour of me getting schooled at NLHE.

Such a great contrast of styles (one thing this match had over Juanda-Cunningham, which was awesome because the guys play so similarly) -- the math wizard vs. the gut genius, and one kind of experience vs. an entirely different kind of experience. I don't think any internet player could have better represented the 'nets better than Townsend, who was 100% class all the way. And Doyle more than held his own; he got coolered in a couple of spots but made several nice bluffs (getting Brian to lay down 88 was pretty hot, and the c/r with T8o on the Kxx board vs. Brian's A9 was even hotter) and only a few misreads (his instincts were off on the 94o hand where Brian shoved the As river). Such great poker. How can you not love this game when two guys like that have a match like that?
well said sir
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07-26-2008 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykes
such a sick slowroll by brian. I doubt he ever folds top 2 in a loldonkament. even if it completes every straight that calls on turn (67,JT) would he honestly just open shove when it hit? he doesn't have a set there and the only better 2 pair is A9 so... call already.

and to all those saying, well duh, you can see the holecards.. you have basically the 4th nuts (since you can rule out sets) and you probably could rule out A9 since of doyle's little comment (seemed he didn't like the card).

also, i don't like doyle's open shove on river since i don't think Brian is going to call him with a hand he beats since Brian is going to bet flop a large percentage of the time with Q5/Q8/85/55/88/QQ (sets are the only thing he might check behind with) and he's smart/nitty enough to get away from 2 pair on river.

I don't think that it was a slowroll as much as he was really worried about the str8, especially since he had made the same str8 a few hands earlier in about the same situation.But your right in saying that he's never folding that.
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