It's an obvious decision.

Take the 30K.

Rest of comments are just drivel (kiss the ring comment is super sized drivel)

The alternative suggestion is that Joey is being disingenuous / untruthful WRT his relationship with PokerStars... I think that there is zero chance that is the case. Joey is many things, but he's not going to effectively lie to his community for 30k especially where that relates to his relationship with any online poker site.

I disagree with David Lappin calling out Joey the way he did (here's what RunItUp personality Andrew Neeme posted in response to Lappin's tweet). But I don't believe Lappin sharing his opinion (on something that's obviously very important to him and others in the poker world?) reflects poorly on him as a person or poker site ambassador.

Many poker people have posted thousands of views across forums/social media for well over a decade. I don't think David K. Lappin or anyone else has any patent on the bestest or worstest insights ever published. So maybe it's just best to recognize he and others are upset about an issue that he obviously has some emotional ties to -- but that he and others also believe justifies some logical concern/need for further scrutiny?

I say this b/c I don't believe PokerStars offering Joey a Platinum Pass needs to devolve into yet another situation in which real people pay real consequences for posting an opinion -- regardless of whether it's perceived by x-person to be equivalent to common sense or glorified spew.

Take the $30K pass. Taking the pass doesn't mean you agree with anything the company does. It just means you're giving yourself a giant free roll into a major tourney.

I won an 888 package for only 3k and it basically said exactly that, something along the lines of I wasn't allowed to say or do anything that reflects poorly on 888 during the tourney.

Once the tourney is over though, he'll likely be able to say whatever he wants.

Surely has to take the 30k though, even if its nothing to him, if only for the up and coming guy to get the 30k as well. It's pretty cringe to see people who would never turn this down pretending that they would since they know that they would never be put in this spot in the first place.

Joey has announced that he will upload a YouTube video tomorrow to address the situation.

https://twitter.com/Joeingram1/statu...57404808458240

This is so something Negreanu would come up with. I can see him giggling in some Stars meeting and saying "Lets offer that kid Joey Ingram a free 30k pass and see what happens haha. Bet you 10k he will accept!"

That being said, don't think there are right or wrong moves here. If anyone deserve a free trip to the PCA, it's Joey. Also helping the other guy is nice. Joey refusing will send a message, but that message was already sent loud and clear over last years and this decision wont have any practical positive outcome. Also Joey has the skills to take the offer and find a way to make the best out of it. GL Papi!

I did find this part of the blog sent to Arlie interesting.

PS = Poker Gods
Us= Mere mortals

I don't disagree w/ that statement when it comes to controlling their own site as the gods of the site & I haven't read the other blogs sent to Arlie for his previous challenges so maybe this has been a common theme the entire time.

I do think it is more than a bribe. I find statements like you say you are in it for the love of the game, use this to tell everyone what a scummy attempt to bribe make me want to say yes much more than they want to make me say no. As if my decision in this particular instance will impact the way I operate moving forward in regards to my love of the game.



Thank you Nick.

Stars has been trying to repair/improve it's relationship with me for a bit of time now. I do think there would be some opportunity to make a positive difference for players at some point but I also do think it sets up for some possible negatives down the road as well.


Much love brother, hope it helped

Classic Twitter thread

From what I can see, there is no contract needed to be signed or any other strings attatched with it.


Haha something tells me they won't be putting up any money of their own.


That isn't really my style but it is an idea.


I think the impact I have on their revenue is non-existent. They made $900 million in rake this year.

I do enjoy this last part of what you say lololol this world is wild. lmao


It is pretty interesting David. It does seem like I am going to upset people w/ either decision. Maybe Stars saw that coming

I won't lose any "buddies" over this. You weren't my buddy or friend to begin with if I lose you because of something lol as this.

I think that you can make the best out of whatever situation you are in, I'm trying to make this fun rather than some life or death decision like some people are making it out to be.

If whatever I choose upsets people that much, maybe that energy will finally be the push I need to join Doug in the pursuit of other activites outside of poker.

I am not signing any NDA with Stars.


I love conspiracy theories more than anyone so I like the premise. I could actually make a strong case for any site of this particular conspiracy being true but David is not making a strong case for his side.

If I would have hatched this up together w/ Stars, it would have been much more GTO to announce it months earlier and have a bigger build up through content & social.

I did offer David to bet on this and we can put up any amount of money he feels comfortable with.


I think David is upset I haven't came on his show yet and is also working together w/ Pokerstars in some capacity or has strong relationships w/ people employed at Pokerstars and is in on it together



This is the way I was looking at it until reading the other viewpoints from people. Well maybe 10% of the way I saw it.



lmao I can totally see him coming up with something like this.

Hate that this looks like attention seeking crap but you're smart enough to be able to make your own decisions and nothing any of us say should mean ****. Either say yes or no depending on what you want to do and are comfortable with and move on.

gl papi, fu stars.

If stars offered Doug 5million bucks Doug would of hada youtube video up 10 hours later embarrassing stars.

Joey has aways been the type to get his hands in for free money or super +ev pbets like that youtube rap vid where he was 100% to win from the start. He isnt the kind of guy to turn down a free 30k vacation.

Judging from his comments to most the people on here or on twitter saying he shouldnt go, in my eyes he already made his mind up. He is going to the PCA. Also Arlies demeanor the past 2-3 days is too calm and hes not sweating anything out, its all hush hush but he knows hes going.

Joey will try to justify it all he wants and say its fine to go for whatever reason but its really not, he spent years bashing them when they took advantage of its players and robbing their supernovas. Joey even said on some videos "i dont know how people can support a company who......." and now he will behelping them a much greater way than they are "helping" him

#TomorrowwillbeknownasblackMonday

papi lighting the first place money on fire would be something

lol I think I've turned down tens of thousands of dollars from poker related companies. The exact opposite of this entire statement is true.

I also made a bet where I needed to learn Mandarin against the same guy I made the music video prop bet and also bet I would get Shaq or OJ on my podcast and lost both of those.

lol where do you people come from

Joey just gotta say I couldn't care less what you do. You're a great positive in the poker community and hope you stick around for a long time to come. However, I do think Stars is scummy af for doing this to the person doing the challenges.

Enjoy the vacation/mtt if you go.

I think you should take it joey.

I say this as an online grinder who can sympathize with how hard stars ****ed people just like me with SNE. But I think the pca is a step in the right direction trying to use that money they ****ed pros out of to put on a show for the rec players. Its getting everyone excited to play poker, recreational players most of all. So we can't let our hatred of what stars has done make us blind to the things they are doing that are good for poker. It doesn't erase what happened but it does make me think they are at least self aware now how bad their PR situation could get. And if that means putting 300 non pros in a 25k how can you really argue it isn't a good step.

If you do go we all know you won't be afraid to ask the tough questions. So I say take the money and use it as an opportunity to get someone to talk to you about the SNE stuff and get some answers.

x1000000000

Some of the replies I'm getting from people on Twitter are super cringe.

Go for it - stupid not to.

this thread shows in spectacular fashion everything what's wrong with this industry. absolutely zero ****ing integrity. as soon as some money is on the line every sort of integrity goes out of the window.
****ing with pro's for teh last 5 years, outright stealing from the most loyal customers w/o any repercussions but once they offer something as ridic as 30k 90% will yell "you have to take it"
situation slightly differs if they'd offer something like 500k+ which is lifechanging/setting for life to a certain degree but 30k? cmon

I think people are probably more pissed of with your insistence of using 'teh' rather than 'the' than they are about him taking the 30k or not.

lol joey the 'pokerstars refering to themselves as gods' thing was just part of the theme, each of the stars pro he beat in XYZ challenge represented a different greek god that he had to slay instead of them just pulling 12 challenges out of their butt with no theme


fwiw i don't know what greek god you are though in this scenario

Are you claiming to be someone w/ the highest integrity around?

I thought this was something fun at first that was pretty LOL they would ever come up w/ this idea. I didn't know it would evolve into these type of posts and critiques.

I'm not really sure what the issue would be to take it. There are no strings attached, I don't have to say or do anything I don't want to do. Arlie also gets a pass out of it. It's one of the best value events of all time. Clearly the direction I've taken hasn't gotten us very far in the past w/ regards to Pokerstars or ACR. I'm not sure what someone like yourself has been contributing to things outside of trolling forum posts. If ACR told me they were trying to fix the issues w/ the site, showed me steps that they meant it and offered to show me, I would say yes to having a discussion w/ them as well and seeing it for myself. Why would I not?? You aren't going to make a big difference on the sidelines being at war with each other forever or holding grudges against people or companies forever. The best way I could make an impact at ACR is to probably forgive them for what happened, build a relationship with them, gain influence and really try to make big changes on the way things are going. Not ranting and raving about not playing on the site over and over like I am doing now.

Pokerstars is attempting to show me that they are doing things better for the players (I'm imagining they are referring to the LIVE side of events and not the online side of things.) This is the strategy they are using to do it. It's pretty evil. It also shows me that they are attempting to make a big effort to show this. Or they want to kill me. They've made it clear they aren't for poker professionals. Over and over again. Now what?? Most of the entire community still support them in different ways. Most of the top players in the world will be at their event. Stars do provide some positive things to the community still and have done some ****ed up things to players. Then what?? Have you quit playing on the site & supporting them?? If you have, good, what else?

I'm not sure what I'm going to do in this situation but I'm not going to get upset at any of the other 300+ winners of the pass if they take it.

Why don't you step up and be a voice of the community and take a stand over and over again against what is happening that is negative for professional players or players who play w/ the intent to win money?? Where were you people making videos over the past few years about the things taking place w/ Stars & ACR?? Or now?? Or tomorrow??

Tl;dr

And no im not but i'm quite sure I would have enough integrity to tell them gtfo if looking at their shady dealings in the past for a measely 30k unless im ded broke maybe

Other high integrity pro's parted way with stars and quite their contracts worth alot more than 30k for one reason only: "TEGRITY" - From a sheer EV perspective all those decisions were atrocious but for some people there is moar in life than EV...

I mean how long do you need to make 30k if you put ur mind to it? 3 weeks? 4 weeks?

I don't need long to make that money at all. If you didn't TL DR you would realize that there is more at stake than just money. Your approach is basically, stay upset forever, ***** about nothing changing, hope things change, cry when it doesn't, criticize others who are trying, repeat.

I don't think you would decline if they offered you this same package.

This isn't years ago when those players left Pokerstars. This is 2019. Things are different now. Plenty of people I would consider to have high integrity still work for the company or are sponsored players for the company. And even if it wasn't, some site that I've bitched about for hours and hours is going to give me some package to play in an event and then I can come back and continue bitching about them for hours and hours if I so desire to.

Here is a list of the winners Tim. I'm sure you will recognize some of the names and maybe know more of them.

https://www.pokerstars.com/en/blog/p...--170369.shtml

Go let them all know how much integrity they lack because they are actually taking the package they were selected for or won. Tell them they shouldn't take it and explain why. Do your part as a voice.