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Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS*** Game of Thrones TV Thread - ***NO BOOKREADERS***

06-03-2014 , 05:06 PM
RE: Tyrion and fate. The point I've been trying to make isn't that Tyrion hasn't had *some* role in his problems, but that if he dies it is a destiny that was created before he had any choice. Remember Oberyn's story about how Cersei wanted him dead when he was a baby? Tyrion said "Cersei always gets what she wants". This entire show has shown us over and over about how Tyrion was afflicted by his condition no matter what, before he could even walk. If the very people who are responsible for this (Tywin and Cersei) end up killing him, it means that Tyrion's fate was always set. He couldn't have gotten out of it by not being a whoremonger or drinker or mouthing off to Joffrey. He's not on trial for those reasons. He's on trial because his father and sister hate him

He's our most sympathetic protagonist. Any writer who kills him this way is a total psychopath. It's worse than Oedipus. At least Oedipus' demise can be said to be because of his hubris. If Tyrion dies it means he was ****ed from birth no matter what


I'm picking Tyrion to live. This isn't the entire reason why. My main reason is that so far all the deaths have been surprises in a "he wasn't supposed to die" way. Even the portrayal of Mountain and Oberyn this season was an attempt by the writers to make the entire audience think that Mountain was a goner.

Tyrion will live because he is supposed to die. That is my prediction. I think he will look like he's about to die, but will be saved by something at the last minute. Tyrion was right when he screamed at his father: "I'm on trial for being a dwarf!" Only the most sadistic mother****er on the planet would kill him now. Doing that is basically the writers telling the audience "yep, he was on trial for being a dwarf. **** him, **** you, tune in next week or **** your mother"
06-03-2014 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend42
This is one of my problems with this season. *Nobody* cares. As bumbling a detective as Ned was, his trying to figure out the Jon Arynn mystery at least gave us some conventional narrative hooks to drag us along.

I wish we had a side story where someone (Jamie, Bronn, Varys, anyone) was working on solving the Joffrey mystery, giving us one more possibility of a Tyrion acquittal. I know a major theme is that power trumps truth, but that doesn't mean you can't give us something to root for, even if it ultimately falls short.
I think the sore thumb that sticks out is Tywin. Someone seems to want to mess with the Lannisters and he seems to not give a ****.

Cersei does care but I think she's legitimately convinced it was Tyrion. Bronn has no incentives. Jaime would maybe be interested in finding out in order to clear Tyrion, but he also knows that once Tywin wants to frame Tyrion finding out the truth wouldn't change the outcome. And as far as Joffrey goes Jaime hasn't never really cared about him afaik.

I agree that the total of none ****s given is a bit annoying though, they should give us something. I'm curious what Varys knows. I can't believe he'd be completely in the dark and he would want to know what's up.
06-03-2014 , 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend42
I thought it was overdone and tonally off. Hard to blame Maisie Williams because I think she's been a clear top 5 actor in the cast so far, but I would have preferred just a knowing head shake to the Hound with a "dude, that's a bad ****ing beat" smirk and maybe cracking herself up, rather than a wide shot of her guffaw echoing through the canyon.

But nitpick is nitpicky.
Yes, totally this.
06-03-2014 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopslam
I think for the general viewing audience, Dany is already one of, if not the main protagonist. She is naive and disliked by OOT, but she is as straight at it comes. She doesn't even have any minor vices like Tyrion. I have to believe that most viewers want to see her and her dragons conquer Westeros.
Yeah I agree, same for Jon. I agree with the earlier "one-dimensional" critique but they seem like pretty major protagonists to me.
06-03-2014 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIThomer
On to some points and questions, firstly the iron born sure like to hit the leader from behind, first theon gets whacked in the head after his nice speech and now the leader of the fort gets splashed. im staying in the back if im a soldier. the offer theon offered was exactly what ramses offered the iron born back in winterfelll, does that mean ramses flayed them as well? seemed to me they made off just fine but again that was simply implied so who knows??
Ramsay states in his letter to Balon that he flayed the twenty Iron Born that he captured at Winterfell.
06-03-2014 , 06:06 PM
Why do people care that nobody, except Cersei, gives a **** about Joffrey dying?

**** him.
06-03-2014 , 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Joffrey
RE: Tyrion and fate. The point I've been trying to make isn't that Tyrion hasn't had *some* role in his problems, but that if he dies it is a destiny that was created before he had any choice. Remember Oberyn's story about how Cersei wanted him dead when he was a baby? Tyrion said "Cersei always gets what she wants". This entire show has shown us over and over about how Tyrion was afflicted by his condition no matter what, before he could even walk. If the very people who are responsible for this (Tywin and Cersei) end up killing him, it means that Tyrion's fate was always set. He couldn't have gotten out of it by not being a whoremonger or drinker or mouthing off to Joffrey. He's not on trial for those reasons. He's on trial because his father and sister hate him

He's our most sympathetic protagonist. Any writer who kills him this way is a total psychopath. It's worse than Oedipus. At least Oedipus' demise can be said to be because of his hubris. If Tyrion dies it means he was ****ed from birth no matter what


I'm picking Tyrion to live. This isn't the entire reason why. My main reason is that so far all the deaths have been surprises in a "he wasn't supposed to die" way. Even the portrayal of Mountain and Oberyn this season was an attempt by the writers to make the entire audience think that Mountain was a goner.

Tyrion will live because he is supposed to die. That is my prediction. I think he will look like he's about to die, but will be saved by something at the last minute. Tyrion was right when he screamed at his father: "I'm on trial for being a dwarf!" Only the most sadistic mother****er on the planet would kill him now. Doing that is basically the writers telling the audience "yep, he was on trial for being a dwarf. **** him, **** you, tune in next week or **** your mother"
i agree with what you write. but tyrion has to die. he will die because he's supposed to die. because his father said he puts family first but isnt putting family first and is going to blow up his house.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyh9w_AO3YE
06-03-2014 , 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aytumious
I didn't break down with laughter or anything, but I laughed a couple seconds after his head popped after the initial surprise had worn off. It was so over the top. The fact that it was so over the top made me very aware that I was watching a TV show so the sense of disgust just wasn't there for me like it most definitely would be if I saw something like that happen to an actual person. That particular death was almost like cartoon violence which just doesn't bother me like more realistic violence.

I often laugh at horror/gore movies that others find scary for the same reason.
It reminded me of Spartacus. I miss that show.
06-03-2014 , 07:08 PM
jorah could just go full saltydog and send ravens all over westeros with info about dany's future plans while telling her he would stop if she unbanned him from the throne room. she would have no choice but to give in, it's just too good of a revenge strategy.
06-03-2014 , 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Joffrey
Dany is my new most disliked character. I never cared much for the speculation that Jorah's pardon would become an issue again because it shouldn't. He spied on her back when she was a nobody and he was a known pseudo-Westerosi. Then before she suffered any consequences, he chose to side with her and has proven he meant it. If it wasn't for him, she would be dead. He has been unfailingly loyal
that's your reason?

every single person at best gets fired in jorah's spot

most of them are killed for treason
06-03-2014 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
I think the sore thumb that sticks out is Tywin. Someone seems to want to mess with the Lannisters and he seems to not give a ****.

Cersei does care but I think she's legitimately convinced it was Tyrion. Bronn has no incentives. Jaime would maybe be interested in finding out in order to clear Tyrion, but he also knows that once Tywin wants to frame Tyrion finding out the truth wouldn't change the outcome. And as far as Joffrey goes Jaime hasn't never really cared about him afaik.

I agree that the total of none ****s given is a bit annoying though, they should give us something. I'm curious what Varys knows. I can't believe he'd be completely in the dark and he would want to know what's up.
Yeah Tywin not seeming to care is weird, but I think there's still a good chance he knows what happened and may even have been pulling the strings.

There can still (and probably will) be some investigation in the next season by Tyrion if he lives or someone else if he dies, but the stakes will be much lower than with Tyrion on death row pending the results. Like did we even get a scene of Tyrion himself trying to piece together who did it?
06-03-2014 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Joffrey
RE: Tyrion and fate. The point I've been trying to make isn't that Tyrion hasn't had *some* role in his problems, but that if he dies it is a destiny that was created before he had any choice. Remember Oberyn's story about how Cersei wanted him dead when he was a baby? Tyrion said "Cersei always gets what she wants". This entire show has shown us over and over about how Tyrion was afflicted by his condition no matter what, before he could even walk. If the very people who are responsible for this (Tywin and Cersei) end up killing him, it means that Tyrion's fate was always set. He couldn't have gotten out of it by not being a whoremonger or drinker or mouthing off to Joffrey. He's not on trial for those reasons. He's on trial because his father and sister hate him

He's our most sympathetic protagonist. Any writer who kills him this way is a total psychopath. It's worse than Oedipus. At least Oedipus' demise can be said to be because of his hubris. If Tyrion dies it means he was ****ed from birth no matter what
I get what you're going for here but it's still a little narrow. There's no way Tyrion has been portrayed as a more sympathetic protagonist than Ned was in s1. Especially after most of s3 was spent with him trying to hide Shae. He could totally die at this point. He's no more innocent than the scores of truly innocent people we've seen slaughtered.
06-03-2014 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aytumious
I didn't break down with laughter or anything, but I laughed a couple seconds after his head popped after the initial surprise had worn off. It was so over the top. The fact that it was so over the top made me very aware that I was watching a TV show so the sense of disgust just wasn't there for me like it most definitely would be if I saw something like that happen to an actual person. That particular death was almost like cartoon violence which just doesn't bother me like more realistic violence.

I often laugh at horror/gore movies that others find scary for the same reason.
I have to agree with you there. The part where the Mountain was thumbing his eyes was brutal to watch but the entire part where his head exploded was just to silly and cartoonish to have a real reaction. Was more bummed out that Oberyn died then shocked at the gore.
06-03-2014 , 08:31 PM
maybe it's better explained in the books or something, but i'm not getting why stannis would go to the wall. that's being really bad at playing the game of thrones.
06-03-2014 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LostOstrich
Jorah's attempt to explain/apologise to Dany could hardly have been less enthusiastic. No idea how he stays relevant now, though I suspect he'll appear from nowhere and save the day at some point.

Combat scene tilted the life out of me. I just knew Oberyn was pushing his luck all the way through it and I was kind of pleased when he got his head squished; there's a time and a place for showboating, and a fight to the death vs the most fearsome warrior in the land is not it. What a life fish he turned out to be. Of course, my happiness level went from "Robyn when a bad man flies out of the moon door" to "unsullied thinking what he'd do to Missandrei then realising... d'oh" when I remembered that he'd also just doomed Tyrion

I like the new streetwise Sansa. Hopefully she'll now take over Ned's role (and that of the now presumably doomed Tyrion) as the viewer's rooting interest. Sansa could emerge from all this in pretty good shape for a long-term throne challenge with Littlefinger alongside her to play the Tywin puppet-master role and Arya on board as the resident kickass ninja. I'm assuming the young titty-guzzling prince isn't going to be kept around for any longer than he's of use to Baelish, who I'm sure won't be stupid enough to attempt to control a lunatic monarch, having seen how that turned out for Tyrion.
I assume Baelish has to keep Robin around. If Robin dies, one of Robin's uncles or cousins should become the new Lord of the Vale, not Baelish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Royale
I think the sore thumb that sticks out is Tywin. Someone seems to want to mess with the Lannisters and he seems to not give a ****.

Cersei does care but I think she's legitimately convinced it was Tyrion. Bronn has no incentives. Jaime would maybe be interested in finding out in order to clear Tyrion, but he also knows that once Tywin wants to frame Tyrion finding out the truth wouldn't change the outcome. And as far as Joffrey goes Jaime hasn't never really cared about him afaik.

I agree that the total of none ****s given is a bit annoying though, they should give us something. I'm curious what Varys knows. I can't believe he'd be completely in the dark and he would want to know what's up.
yeah, Varys would definitely want to know. His whole existence revolves around information and "Who killed the King?" is about as powerful a piece as you can know.

And Jamie should care as he'd want to save Tyrion and probably also like to know who killed his son.
06-03-2014 , 09:22 PM
OOTV mods: any way to delete the users who have spoilers in their usernames? Some posts were deleted but there was a spoiler in one of the usernames, and since I can see their usernames even after the posts were deleted, it'd be great if that could be done. I realize that might be a little extra work only for one TV-watcher (me), but I would really, really appreciate it.
06-03-2014 , 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blastoff
jorah could just go full saltydog and send ravens all over westeros with info about dany's future plans while telling her he would stop if she unbanned him from the throne room. she would have no choice but to give in, it's just too good of a revenge strategy.
yeah, this is a great plan. the second he got back into the throne room he would get either beheaded or barbecued or both.
06-03-2014 , 09:36 PM
Lol at "going full saltydog". I'm glad that's a thing now!
06-03-2014 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aytumious
I didn't break down with laughter or anything, but I laughed a couple seconds after his head popped after the initial surprise had worn off. It was so over the top. The fact that it was so over the top made me very aware that I was watching a TV show so the sense of disgust just wasn't there for me like it most definitely would be if I saw something like that happen to an actual person. That particular death was almost like cartoon violence which just doesn't bother me like more realistic violence.

I often laugh at horror/gore movies that others find scary for the same reason.
I can see that perspective now, but at the time I didn't have to suspend much disbelief to think a 6'8" 420 pound monster could do that
06-03-2014 , 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legend42
Yeah Tywin not seeming to care is weird, but I think there's still a good chance he knows what happened and may even have been pulling the strings.

There can still (and probably will) be some investigation in the next season by Tyrion if he lives or someone else if he dies, but the stakes will be much lower than with Tyrion on death row pending the results. Like did we even get a scene of Tyrion himself trying to piece together who did it?
Yes the very first scene in the dungeon he was ruling out suspects.
06-03-2014 , 09:40 PM
The beetle story was bothering me for a while because I couldn't find a point to it (still can't) but then I read this response and it seems to make sense

Spoiler:
Orson kills beetles. The Mountain kills women and children. In fact, a good many people around Tyrion are killers. Even his brother Jaime who's, at this point, generally considered to be a good dude totally pushed a kid out a window and had all of Ned's servants killed in S1.

Tyrion could not understand the beetle murder habit of Orson's because Tyrion is not a natural killer. He just doesn't have the stomach for the casual relationship with death that so many others in Westeros do. Life is cheap in this world, but the one character who doesn't feel that way is Tyrion. You'll notice he picked up a bug during that monologue and at the end he let it go.

Dude just isn't made for this world.

Last edited by 27offsuit; 06-03-2014 at 10:29 PM.
06-03-2014 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonian
maybe it's better explained in the books or something, but i'm not getting why stannis would go to the wall. that's being really bad at playing the game of thrones.
Because Lady Melissandra said it's more important.
06-03-2014 , 09:43 PM
Anyone have an interpretation of tyrions (long) beetle story? I was kind of hoping he would end with a point to the story..
06-03-2014 , 09:56 PM
Kind of surprised nobody has cited this Deadwood fight scene as a parallel yet.

[x] Brawn between two main players
[x] Epic buildup
[x] One guy has it won but deliberately decides to extend the fight
[x] ending
06-03-2014 , 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonian
maybe it's better explained in the books or something, but i'm not getting why stannis would go to the wall. that's being really bad at playing the game of thrones.
He got his ass kicked trying to conquer KL once, and he's listening to Mellisandre now, who is probably right.

      
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