Ha! We didn't being it up this time! Trolly did: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/21...8/index84.html

I'm ready to let it die already.

For my part, when I read the slavery thread in particular I didn't find it too difficult to believe that in that case it was a matter of playing devil's advocate, just from those posts in a vacuum.

Some of the posts in the ferguson thread and the general way things went down shed a different light though. Not that it matters very much to me either way now, but what they hey, since we're talking about it again.

chez: if you want there to be a discussion about it, there still really isn't anything preventing bruce from posting about his opinions, methods, and whatever else. I doubt that you or foldn posting about it will ever have the same effect.

You are being ridiculous. What do you know about Swiss history? My guess is nothing.

I am actually pretty well read about the history of slavery. I have read a ton of revisionist history on top of that and so none of BruceZ arguments were new to me (and yes D’Souza is an idiot). If I was reading and posting in SMP at that time I actually think I could have taken his position better than he had. But it is exactly because I think slavery is the root of all evil that I could have.

Do I think he is as radical in his views as I am? No. But few people are. Do I think he just tried to take a position he doesn't really believe in? Jein. I think he really believes morals are relative to the times people are living in. But he is not alone in that and countless philosophers I respect have taken that position. It is not racist.

Do I think all the positions he took in the slave thread are his own? Hell no and my guess is I have better information on that one than you do. But he did a really good job defending one particular stance on the issue. It is more than you ever did.

As I say he probably deserves me.

I don't know why linking a thread that mentions his method long before the current fiasco would persuade anyone it wasn't an after the fact excuse.

23/7/2011 if anyone actually cares.

Strangely exactly what I was describing in the thread that got deleted despite me having long forgotten about this thread.

lol no, you're not.

I've pointed out several times now that the best possible thing you guys could ever do for Bruce is to stop talking about this crap and defending it. But you can't do that. You can't even let one little throwaway line pass unchallenged. And here we are again, 100 posts deep and counting.

Maybe you're right, but I'm trying.

lol, foldn, you're going to be in here whining for years over the BruceZ incident. Years. Assuming they don't shut down unchained, obv:

And as we've stated many times, if Bruce were just playing a part and didn't care what we thought he thought, then there's no reason for him to be offended when we call his posts racist, and he should by no means want to censor those who disagree with him. Thus, we find this explanation completely insincere, especially since he switched to relying upon it well after going to great lengths offering a different explanation for his posts.

The argument that I don't think that I'd have done any better than they did (given the beliefs that the founding fathers had) and therefore can't blame them? That we should be happy that they got the ball rolling the right direction?

I'd love to think I would have done better than they did (and also independently derived our more enlightened ethical feelings). I can't, with even a modicum of intellectual honesty, believe that I would have done any better at all.

I wouldn't say that BruceZ supported slavery. I'd say he probably thinks that enslaving a white person is worse than enslaving a black person and that being enslaved by a black person is worse than being enslaved by a white person. I think he believes that blacks would be better off picking cotton, but is smart enough to not put it in those terms.

Unfortunately there is.

The thread I started didn't die because of a lack of interest and I am able to represent Bruce's views fairly well as well as my own. I cant do it though unless the abuse is modded away and we draw the line at specifics about the aftermath.

If only there was a place where you could post whatever you wanted and could mod a thread however you wanted...

Edit: To be clear though I see absolutely no value in having a thread like that or in the continual rehashing of this whole mess.

swiss- What do you think Bruce's opinion of D'Souza is?


FFS do you literally not even bother trying to understand the meaning of sentences?

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Does making the current topic ITT about BruceZ give FlyWf a pass.

Fly was totally racist towards another user in this thread recently. It is evident and plain that Fly committed direct and targeted racial prejudice using racist stereotyping and slur. Totally objectionable and some would say patently offensive.

But somebody discussed slavery in the philosophy forum.

Like you appear to have picked up that D'Souza is not held in esteem but, just like with Bill O'Reilly, I don't think you have any idea WHY he's regarded as an idiot. As in, if someone in this forum paraphrased the **** from his books that earned him such scorn from the general intelligentsia, I don't think you'd regard that person as stupid.

You keep ignoring the fact that he was called racist not just the posts. If Tom hadn't done that then brucez would clearly have responded differently.

That's not the whole story by any means but its outrageous to pretend it didn't happen. I don't fully understand this modding business but could Bruce actually censor anybody?

I not sure anything could ever dent your certainty. You wear your shield too well.

Google "jein." She used it in her post to describe her opinion of Bruce.

Wait, are you using the royal we?

Just because somebody takes some positions that are not his own doesn't mean that he couldn't be offended by people actually attributing these positions to him and calling him racist. It actually makes it more likely.

Even we could make mistakes in reacting to stupid accusations.

The paragraph is bold is so pathetic and saddening.

A true disconnect from reality. BruceZ forgot the part about regular "floggings" (oh no he didn't forget), as well as having your family beaten or sold to someone else at any moment's notice. A true lottery winner right there.

Black guy that won the lottery:




White guy that won the lottery:




Yeah a dog would prefer living with George Washington rather than in the wilds of Africa. Do we really need to explain why this isn't the same for a human being?

We can't discuss why bigots are idiots while either they or the thought police are in the room. Why? Somebody might explain forbidden thoughts and provoke SJWs into a rancor.

That was uncalled for.

As I mentioned it cant work by proxy. I tried that.

I also assume as my thread was deleted which I've never seen happen before, that it was not welcome in a profound way.

lol, you do realize BruceZ admitted he wasn't doing that?