Are you begging for questions at thin air?

You're helping me out here. The burning fossil fuels problem hasn't been abolished, and I dare say you do it knowing it contributes to killing our environment. Are you scum? Could you function in this society without fossil fuels? Jefferson was born into a society that relied on slavery, and he took steps to change that society politically. Yet you think he's scum for not going bankrupt, which would have prevented his being able to do any of those things.

OK, let's talk about 18th century British society, of which Jefferson was a member until 1776.

Slavery was even abolished in Georgia for a while! This was not a foreign concept to anyone.

Maybe, or maybe fossil fuel use isn't as bad as slavery.

I thought Jefferson got legislation passed that prohibited slave importation.

Even if that's true, it's beside the point. And it may not be true if global warming leads to a run-away green house effect, destroying civilisation.

Mr.wookie is posting in this thread with a bigot and a bully. Two modern day types that we are working hard to abolish.

Yet he is still obsessed with ancient past and attacking philosophy posts that targeted no actual person with prejudice.

For some reason? he chooses not to speak out against the likes of FlyWf and Dids. Looks like a total failure of judgement.

Huh, why would he ever do that, when slavery was such a universally accepted practice in his culture?

No, it's the whole damn point. The entirety of my fossil fuel use is of negligible damage compared to the damage done on another person were I to own them as my property.

I am arguing against your criticisms, I'm just doing it on a holistic tactical level. Your criticisms have been largely based on nothing more than people reaching a different conclusion than you have reached. Calling somebody "emotional" and "narrow-minded" for having a different opinion is just another variation on "If only you were smarter/better at critical thinking/whatever, you'd see that I am right". It's condescending and counter-productive.
This is exactly what's happened over all these weeks. Posters have been called racists, other posters have been called bullies, evidence has been presented, and people have reached conclusions. Those conclusions are just opinions, based on complex subjective factors that obviously vary from one person to the next.
Again, this is just another way of saying "my opinion is valid, other opinions are invalid". It's a gloriously circular argument where you start with the presumption that your judgement is fair, and therefore anybody who disagrees must not have "fair judgement" or they must not be using "all the information available". Again, this seems condescending and counter-productive. You're not the only one taking this line, but you seem to be amping it up in this latest round.

Because he was trying to change his society for the better. Guys like that are scum.


Tell that to your great, great x 10 grand kid who just killed someone for a couple bites of food, clinging to what's left of the human race.

bwahahahhahahahahah




If this happens, it still won't be because one guy did not decide to live as an electricity-less hermit.

Please Foldn, for the lols, explain for us Jefferson's thought process leading up to banning the import of slaves not actually freeing any slaves.

Huh? No, according to your model, that guy is the only one who dodges the hollow insult of pondscum. I think he'd be better off burning a few gallons of gas per day and working towards a society where we limit greenhouse gasses and take care of the environment.

You barely reach where I am coming from, but maybe we can reach understanding.


My stance is that everyone has valid opinions, just that some are better and some are worse. Each person can decide for themselves whose opinions have the better quality and contain more accurate characterizations of people's behavior.

As far as the political communication methods involved, really no grounds to accept criticism for doing something popularly accepted such as doling out criticism, even of it is not optimal behavior.

Maybe showing how optimal criticism and labeling can be is one way to discredit it's casual usage.

Try following the conversation.

I'm not clear how raping your slaves fits into this narrative. But whatever.

As I recall it was a part of an incremental approach. It's all outlined in the thread. Maybe it would have been better to emancipate them all, as was eventually done by that pond scum Lincoln (DS's words, not mine), but the reasons why it wasn't done that way originally were both political and practical.

I would have started by not raping them.

Maybe even thrown in the occasional gratuity. What the hell.

Well, at least Jefferson didn't burn any gasoline.

What crazy 21st century thinking. I bet people that said that in the 1800s were called politically correct thought police.

FWIW, it is pretty well known that Jefferson was thought slavery was wrong and should be abolished. Also that he thought blacks were inferior and childlike. This is all, like, really well documented and not in dispute? I don't even know what you guys are talking about really.

I was just happy we weren't talking directly about you-know-who anymore.

Bruce rattled off some of the events that happened, and Bruce went on to apologize for Jefferson's continued slave rape despite the fact that Jefferson did somehow get the idea that slavery is something that should be incrementally abolished, just so long as it doesn't interfere with his raping. Even though apparently slavery was so accepted in his culture that he would have no notion that slavery was wrong or anyone to tell him so.

Maaaayyyybe. Mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe so.

Nope.

Well of course it would have been better to not practice slavery in the first place. That is futility of arguing a historic mindset against a person using narrow hindsight and a modern moral goal post.

It takes mental and emotional flexibility to speculate on a person's thinking when it involves something considered very morally reprehensible. Not everyone is practiced or naturally able to do it.