I don't think it's about greed since the money comes from the jackpot drop either way. It's just a matter of what promos they think will attract people. They are making high hands 24/7 with rollovers in April, upped the cap on the bad beat from 50k to 300k, and added a mini bad beat for any quads less than jacks that pays 10% of whatever the main bad beat amount is. It seemed like a lot of people bitched about the drawings promo for hours played, so maybe they are trying something different. But I guess you can't please everybody.

Personally I'd rather have recs coming in to chase high hands because they usually play bad trying to hit them. You make your money against them rather than trying to win a HH yourself. With the time promos you get the usual reg nits staying even longer, playing super tight so their stack will last while they fall asleep at the table racking up hours.

Fair enough. If the overall $ value they're giving back from the drop is roughly equal and it'll discourage nit grinders/encourage rec players then I guess I have no complaints

It's progressive starting at $50k and going up each day until it caps at $300k. Right now it's around 82k. Quad jacks have to be beaten by higher quads or a straight flush, and the quads must be with a pocket pair, and the straight flush must include both cards from your hand.

There is a mini bad beat that is quad tens or lower quads getting beat. It pays 10% of whatever the main jackpot amount is at the time the mini is hit.

What’s the promotions going on? What are $400 in chips ? Are they straight cash value chips ?

Yes, regular chips paid to you at the table.

Pretty sure we get paid in Schrute bucks

Pretty sure you’ve never hit a promo in your life

Big shout out to the Hard Rock for having the absolute worst floor and dealers I have ever seen in a tournament. 5 huge **** ups involving the same player in a 2 day MTT has to be some sort of record.

Any additional details on this? I'm out of the loop

Spill them beans!

Scenario 1- mid way through day 1 I bet 3K on the river with 1 of my 2 grey 5K chips. Player goes all in for what I believe to be like 7500. I call using my 2nd and only other grey 5K chip. Hands get flipped I lost the hand and I'm told I owe like 7-8K and 1 of my grey chips is now in his stack. I being to question things and the player sits their quietly. Everyone at the table concludes I indeed had 2 chips and him 0. I got my 5K back and now I'm told I owe like 3K. I again question this after a second but it took me a little longer after the last 4 minute exchange.

The next hand is dealt and before it finishes I ask for the floor he yells they don't hear and the hand continues. Next hand which ends up breaking the table is dealt as I still ask for a floor and to check the cameras and again HU on the river after the hand is dealt he has what is what in the pots wrong because their was a side pot. I question that and a floor comes up and tells me to calm down.

I go to my next table, 2nd hand I'm all in and win. 5 mins after this I am pulled to the side and handed around 4K in chips from the previous table.

Scenanrio 2- There is 22 or so people left I call from the BB and the flop comes K45 I have K6, checks through. Turn brings a 3 and I take a minute with both hands on my cards and player B acts out of turn checking. I say "wait I didn't check" dealer says I twitched my pinky essentially and some jack wagon across the table says "I heard check" while the 2 players directly next to me say "no he didn't say anything". Clearly I was betting the turn considering my hand and the same floor is called again, rules I checked we see a river that is and A player B now has top pair. I flip my hand showing what I had then said player comes up at break saying "sorry and yeah you were probably betting" lol.

That cost me about a 33% increase in my stack at the most important time in the tournament.

Scenario 3- I have maybe 500K in orange chips and another 400K in others so my stack is obnoxiously large. Get into a 3 way all in for less and a girl sits down with chips in the rack. My orange get knocked over into her stack. They deliberate on what to do for about 6 minutes and the clock continues running. Finally a guess is made (I had said 290-315K was my stack) that I had 290 my the TD when all that was required was to see what her still racked up chips looked like 2 minutes before. I question the amount and after it's all done said player finds more chips in the cup holder and deems them mine so it about evened out, but still was easiest enough to fix.

The first mistake is just ridiculous, especially when questioned to continue the action. The 2nd happens, I get it, but the timing was terrible and I didn't move at all or say anything with 2 players confirming this, seems pretty easy to make the right call. It was a huge swing for my tournament and cost me a decent chunk in equity. In 8 years of live play I haven't had more than 1 mistake big enough to care total and within 1 tournament 2 pretty large ones are made.

Needless to say, I declined tipping the dealers for that one and will never tip any but a select few anything ever again.

SHRT has hired a lot of new dealers in the past several months and many of them are not so good. Sorry you ran bad with dealers. Also sounds you ran bad with other players, as all your incidents involved at least one other player being dishonest about chip count or the action.

For dealing with players I just assume everyone is trying to angle me and act as absolutely clearly as possible. Like when someone goes all-in always get an exact count, if for no other reason than so many people hide chips, but it also would stop your first scenario from occurring. And you probably shouldn't have both hands on the table. Covering up the cards especially. This makes out of turn checks likely and you're more likely to have some random twitch ruled a check. I keep my hands on the rail until it's time to act precisely to avoid ambiguous actions. And I would be wary about approaching players. I've had people knock over my chips before. Luckily I always know the exact count so it's easy for me to reconstruct authoritatively.

For dealing with dealers...seems like the bad ones often latch onto the first player to back up their action as correct (like in your second scenario). You want to be the first, last, and strongest voice any time there's a ruling. Seen a number of bad rulings where they just rule for the more assertive and confident player.

I needed a floor ruling last week in a cash game and the dealer didn't even call the floor. I expect it was to protect herself as she'd screwed up. She mucked my hand, and before they hit the muck I ask for them back, she ignores me and mucks them anyway. They're on top though and should be retrievable so I ask for a supervisor. She rules I mucked and refuses to call one. I explain that's a floor decision whether I mucked. She ignores me. I don't know what to do besides not tip her. And protect my hand better in the future I guess.

You're always allowed to ask for a floor - that's the whole point. The dealer can't tell you that the decision is final. I would just tell them to stop dealing and get a floor over, and then just stand up and yell for a floor yourself if needed.

I agree with pretty much everything said. Dealers are pretty weak overall. They don't control games very well at all, people constantly talking about their hand strength in multi way pots before folding etc, and dealers rarely tell them it's out of line or give them a warning. I'm always the one that has to tell people to shut up in multi way pots, and then most of the people get upset with me like I have attitude at the table because they find that type of behavior so acceptable and normal since dealers rarely tell them to stop.

People angle all over the place in Tampa. Just be more aware of the fact that you really need to cover yourself and expect poor dealer skills. There are a few great dealers in Tampa, but it's definitely not the norm.

I'm not as assertive as I should be at times. I thought I was pretty assertive and authoritative with the dealer when I asked to call the floor but she seemed new...maybe not aware that's a player right. I told her it was and I was just ignored and she moves on to the next hand. I know she could hear me clearly as I was in seat 5. I just gave up when she went to the next hand as getting a proper ruling would be really hard at that point. And the pot wasn't that big...like 70 BBs.

Yeah OPTAH is so rarely enforced I'm typically surprised if the dealer does say anything. Last night I'm at a table where one player was constantly narrating his thoughts during multiway hands. Like "whoa a bet and a raise. I think one of you is on a draw. Might have you both beat, but him I haven't seen raise all night. Hmm... I fold" and he would often show me his hands before folding or mucking so I know he was being truthful when saying things like this. Multiple dealers, nobody said a word. I should have said something but guy was on my right and kind of a whale. I felt speaking up might turn him and the table against me and all that would happen is a warning which he would forget 5 minutes later.

There's one dealer who enforces OPTAH but overdoes it. She doesn't even allow talking in heads up pots which I think is kind of ridiculous. I've asked some of the other dealers if that's a rule and they didn't think so but didn't sound sure about it.

So much collusion and softplaying also and normally dealer says nothing, or they jokingly say something like "WHOA
QI didn't hear that". You can flat call with the nuts OTR and say "I'm only doing this because we're friends" and it's totally fine. Even seen people openly colluding like one SS shoves pre, a second guy reshoves, everyone folds, then they try to take their bets back and tell the dealer "we're friends--all the money's going to the same place." Other than telling them the hand has to be played out nothing happens. Seen several cases like this and I've played here just a year.

IWTSTH is massively abused but maybe that's normal. Every time I've seen it invoked by others it was just some guy calling a river bet wanting to see a mucked hand for information. One time I do a triple barrel bluff, guy calls and tables his rivered nut flush out of turn and I throw my hand into the muck. He says he wants to see my hand. It's already in the muck though and irretrievable. He calls the freaking floor, tells the floor he asked to see my hand and THEN I mucked (wrong order, he was drunk), and I then get chastised by the floor who doesn't bother to hear what actually happened and just tells me he had the right to see my hand. WTF...

I invoked IWTSTH just once where I was 99% sure two players were colluding and it looks very likely they just squeezed out a third player OTR (first collider bets, player in middle flat calls, second colluder raises, first colluder 3 bets, player in middle folds, second colluder calls, 3 bettor mucks). And just my luck the dealer acts like she has NO IDEA what I'm talking about. I explicitly say "I want to see that hand. Do you not have that rule here? I've seen it invoked many times. Call a supervisor if you dont know what I'm talking about." Again I get more confusion. Not only that, she gets kind of indignant then tells me "you should really know the rules where you play" and laughs at me. This gets me a bit pissed and I say "Trust me I know the effing rules." NOW she wants to call a supervisor. At this point because I said a naughty word nothing that happened before matters so I just apologize and drop it. So many incompetent dealers...and about 90% of my issues have been with female dealers. I can think of at least 2 who are quite good but most of the rest...pretty meh at best. Maybe I'm a closet sexist or I just run bad with female dealers but IDK...

Also right about tons of angle shooters. Most common is chip hiding which I would guess about a third of players regularly do this (though some nonmaliciously). I've seen some very creative and devious angles though. I'll refrain sharing them as that's probably frowned upon.

The huge redeeming factor of SHRT: many terrible poker players punting away their money. The room and tables are also relatively nice.

And that's the crux of the problem: the room doesn't enforce consistent rules, nor teaches room rules to their dealers.

You get different rules and rulings dealer to dealer, floor to floor, and tournament director to tournament director. And none of them care a wit whether the rules or rulings are fair and fairly administered. There is no state oversight or regulations applicable to the tribal poker rooms, and no one from the federal government is overseeing enforcement of federal regulations that apply to the tribal poker rooms. There is no recourse to anyone for wrongs imposed on the players. And minimal liability of the Tribe for anything from bad rulings to wrongful death.

On the other hand, you get to play against drunks, amateurs and whales.

This

Really unfortunate that a room that could be so great is ran so bad. I'm sure I'll go play there again at some point, but I've yet to go back since the above occurred.

I got all of you beat on annoying dealer stories at the Hard Rock recently. I mostly played at Derby 95% of the time (The 1-3 games used to so juicy there so very rarely went to the Hard Rock), but once Derby got rid of the 1-1 game and made it a 1-2, it killed the 1-3 game so started going to the Rock again...

So anyways it's my first night back at the Rock in probably 6 months, long story short, I hit a high hand with $14 in the pot, dealer says there has to be $20, I say no worries, as it was only Aces full of Kings and it was like 8:33pm on a Thur night, figured there was no chance it would have held anyways... Well it would have... and come to find out the next night, that it only needed to be $10.00, and the high hand was $777.00, that night. So wasn't too happy about it.

But yeah, made the Rock my main room again, and some of these new dealers are just absolutely terrible at A.) Controlling the table B.) Just dealing in general. I personally had 3 cards flipped over and exposed last night on the deal alone during a 7 hour session, one would have given me pocket aces... and frankly some of the dealers who have been there awhile, just look like and act like they don't want to be there anymore. Heard they fired a few long time dealers recently, so maybe the moral is down, but had a dealer there the last 3 times I've played, I've gotten him and don't think he's said a single word to one player the entire down, in any of the 3 sessions, just sits there blankly, and deals and looks like he'd rather be anywhere but there...

just hold your cards in your hand and refuse to give them up til they havee to call for the floor, and when the floor comes over, explain how the dealer refused to call for one a more normal method

That's unfortunate and surprising the dealer and no one at your table knew the HH rules. I have heard questions about HHs many many times and the dealers sometimes get the win amount wrong but never the amount that needs to be in the pot (IME which is probably having heard this question 100ish times).

I would have explained the situation to the floor afterward. You tabled a legitimate HH and it's dealer responsibility to announce that to the floor. I don't know what they would do in that scenario...I'm sure they could roll back the security cam footage though not a day later obviously. I bet the dealer felt pretty stupid talking himself out of a large tip assuming you tip.

How did you make Aces full of kings with just 14 in the pot? Even if you're playing 1/2 a standard 10 dollar raise would get you to 20 HU. Or did you have like A2 in the BB runout 3KKAA? Even in that case it's pretty easy to get it to 20 in a 7 way pot (limped 7 ways is only way I'm figuring 14 is in the pot...or a raise to 6 called solely by SB).

I've been screwed out of much more money from a bad ruling but I'll refrain from getting into it.

I've been playing regularly for about a year and the dealers used to be a lot better and more consistent with their knowledge. In January I think they got a new poker director who started implementing various changes to promos and rules, most of which I like, but one day I showed up in....March I think, and suddenly like half the dealers were totally new. Like it was literally their first day. And they were terrible and dealt slow and made many mistakes like misdeals, not following action correctly, misreading boards, announcing raise when someone throws in a black chip to call 50, etc. And most of those dealers are still there and they have gotten better but many are still pretty bad. Also a lot of brushes becoming dealers but they're usually decent. Lot of new faces lately.

Hopefully the new batch gets better over time and they fire the ones that don't.

The new poker room manager needs fired, obviously is clueless with all the moronic rules like not selling out of the rack, yet never having enough runners to get chips. When I lived here before the room was ran pretty well and most dealers were at least some what competent.

I didn't realize it was only $10.00 until the next time I went to the Hard Rock and it got brought up. The funny part of it all, it was folded around, and the guy asked for a chop and I asked if I could play it (I had AK suited) he said sure, flop came AAx, he looked at me like "do you have a chance" I gave him the nod, he threw a $5.00 chip in, I called. Turn was a blank, and river brought out the K, I honestly was just focusing on the quad Ace, wasn't even thinking about the full house, and he checked I just checked, and the dealer was like "Oh man, what are you doing, you didn't have enough for the High hand, you needed $6.00 to make it $20" I was like ah, ****, but once again, it was a Thur night at like 8:33pm (which is busy because they have the $777 high hand) so figured no chance it would actually hold... and it would have (Aces full of 10's ended up taking it down), everyone at the table and the dealer were giving me crap (in a playful way) that I didn't make it $20 and we played it just for the hh possibility.

Then a few nights later it got brought up, and I told my table the story, everyone said it only needed to be $10.00, and got it confirmed... so yeah, no clue if he was a new dealer or not, never really seen him before, but didn't play there much at the time... Can't really bring it up a few days later, and probably partially my own fault for not knowing the rules.. but cost me $700 and the dealer $77... so we both learned a valuable lesson I guess.. lol


Also, 1000000000% agree about dealers not being able to sell out of the rack... A.) It stops a lot of people from topping off, as no one wants to call the floor over just to add on $50-$100, so there's a lot more short stacks then usually B.) It slows the game down considerably, because everytime someone busts out, it seems like the dealers almost feel inclined to wait for the brush to bring over more chips, and sit there and stall dealing the next hand, so the person who just busted doesn't miss a hand while waiting for chips... Legit, say 90% of the time, the dealer will stall til the brush comes, which can take anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes... such a waste of time. Wish they'd just go back to the old way...

LOL so it was one of those "openly collude for a HH BVB situations" and the guy even threw in 5 bucks to get you over 10 but he didn't know the HH rules either? And no one at the table either. That's some bad luck hombre.

I have mixed feelings about the no selling chips from the rack rule. I hated it at 1/2 because so many people buy in short and want to rebuy and sometimes you just lose the fish before a runner gets there. At 2/5 fewer people seem to mind but I still feel like it gives people a chance to walk away when they bust which is never good as people rebuying immediately after busting are more likely to be on tilt. It does speed up the game a BIT but probably like 2 hands an hour. Personally I just buy extra chips so I can top up immediately. I don't know why everyone doesn't do this, but yeah I kind of wish they would change it back just to keep the fish happy. I never minded waiting 30s or whatever for the dealer to sell the chips. It was pretty annoying when someone at 2/5 would pull out like fifty 20s but I've only seen that a few times.

The only really good rule changes are 2/5 is a red chip game now and your table doesn't have to break in order to transfer your whole stack. Before the second rule in particular there were so many times I would stay at a mediocre table because I had accumulated 500BB and didn't want to have to start over but since February or around then you not only can but must transfer your whole stack. Of course some of the dealers STILL don't know about this. As recently as a few weeks ago I did a transfer with like 3k in chips and dealer says table max is 1k. I say it's a transfer. He says table max is 1k unless I'm coming from a broken table. I say no that's not right call the floor. He does call the floor, and the floor initially tells me I have to come from a broken table to bring 3k, I tell him I've done this many times since the rule changes, and he's like "oh yeah...that's right. It's broken tables and transfers now. I'm not a fan of that rule. But yes you bring all your chips." So after like 5 minutes of arguing play resumes with me using the correct amount of chips (3k) for the room.

LOL. So typical SHRT...

Not selling chips out of the rack to a player that busts is the most absurd rule I've ever seen. Guy busted his stack last weekend and the dealer literally told him it's probably just easier if he gets up and goes to the cage to get cash since the brush takes forever. It's a poopy way to treat someone that just lost an all in, and just speaks to their greed as they'd prefer if they tilted and ran to the table games.

Playing the $570 tourney last night. One player raises to 5500, short stack goes all in for 4900 chips, and big blind calls 5500 bet. So there should be 1200 on the side pot, and the dealer literally was completely lost and clueless and just ended things by saying "Okay, I'll listen to you guys because I get lost when that kind of stuff happens and I just can't figure it out". He was a nice guy, but this isn't some complicated multi way pot - it's about as simple as it gets and just speaks to how you should keep an eye on everything when in a pot because the dealers just don't have the skills to keep up with some of the simplest functions of their job, like math. I can't imagine what that dealer is like when it comes to PLO.

(5500 - 4900) * 2

"Oh damn I didn't take advanced calculus guys I'm gonna need some help here."

I've definitely had some hands where I won the side pot and lost the main but got back way less than I'm supposed to. I always do the math myself now.

Some dealers are quite good at PLO others very slow. It helps that most players just bet the pot which makes the math easier. When they don't it can slow down a bit.

Can somebody break down what the official rake is at 2/5? Like when do they not take the drop? Sometimes I blind steal and get back 7. Less often I blind steal and get back 5. I don't think they're supposed to take the drop on uncalled bets preflop but I can't find the official rake/drop rules anywhere.

I know the % is 1 dollar per 10 in pot capped at 5 dollars (but a bet has to be called presumably or two people limp). And preflop they will take the drop and additional rake if there is like a bet / 3 bet / fold. I'm not sure what happens when there are several limps, I raise, and everyone folds. And if I open raise and everyone folds pretty sure it's no drop...

From what I gathered last time they put all of the new dealers in to deal the Little Slick, even when very deep into day 2. I will not play a single tournament there again until that changes. I almost had myself convinced to go play the $570 tonight since I had time, but not worth the BS.