I think CAZ no longer pays aces cracked if a player announces their hand.

Rob, I agree with Pope. I think all the discussion about the rake is akin to strat talk and should be avoided at the table.

I think you'd be shocked at the ignorance of many/most of the low limit players as to the amount going down the shoot. You can really see this when a regular 8-16 player plays 20 for the first time. The fact that they have to pay in 7dollars in advance that comes directly out of their stack is usually pretty shocking.

My funny story related to checking it down in the blinds:

This was about a year and a half ago. A 8-16 regular is in the SB and I'm in the big. Folds around to her and I go to muck my hand for a chop when she asks if I have a jackpot hand. I check and have two kings. We agree to check it down. Jackpot was like 50k.

Flop is AAA. She has an incredibly excited look on her face. I just hope she has a kicker. Takes a few for the floor to come over. The game was quasi short handed(5 or 6) so the other players are fairly excited. Turns a 3. So far so good. Check check. River is a beautiful 4. I check out of turn and prepare to expose my hand. SB says "I haven't acted yet," and with incredibly shaky hands puts out a bet. This is a pretty big breach of etiquette and the rest of the table explodes at her because they want their juiced up table share. One player explains to floor that she agreed to check it down. Floor says that it's a legal bet. I don't want to call out of principle but make the call. She announces... "You must have an ace, it's good." I elect to just open my hand and show aces full of kings. Floor tells her she has to open her hand as is standard jackpot situation procedure. She says I was going to anyway.. And with an elaborate slow roll like gesture that lasted 10seconds opens her hand. I think maybe we are good and she was just slow rolling a jackpot to build excitement. The other players at table are practically foaming at the mouth.

She says I got you on the end and shows 4-4. Both the dealer and floor have to explain to her why she lost the pot.

Best part of story. One of the other players at table who was going nutso at the thought of a short handed table share tells me after- "I forgot in the excitement but I mucked an ace."

Lol all around at the jackpot games.

Played 8-16 one time, folds to small blind, he says let me check for a jackpot, nope. I say so you don't have an ace or a pair, he says no. I say, I don't chop.

I agree, funny story, but I am a bit confused about why the bet on the end upset you. Actually I thought that is what you would want her to do; doesn't there have to be a certain amount of money in the pot to get the jackpot? In AC, where we actually could check it down for a freeroll, the standard would be to bet on the end if you had a qualifier. There were horror stories about 2 buddies checking it down then not winning because they didn't have enough in the pot. Also, when she bets, doesn't that mean you either win the hand or the BBJ? I would have raised her I think....

No, there was (at the time, not sure about current rules) no required minimum or full rake taken for a BBJ at CAZ.

I thought betting was an angle shoot- and moreso if you agree to check it down- you check it down. It's an ethics thing. I was involved in four jackpots twice where I had the ace and could have bet- you just don't because the cost of making someone fold a jackpot is so high. Most of the time when I had seen a river bet in a similar situation it was because the persons kicker didn't play. It was such an absurd situation that raising didn't occur to me.

I don't know how you guys even get involved in such hands. I avoid playing jackpot games as much as possible, but I have never even seen a hand at a table I was playing that would have qualified for a jackpot anyplace.

Standard rule in Atlantic City is that $20 minimum has to be in the pot to get the jackpot, so I probably would have bet the end if I had the ace myself!

Shorter but just as funny.

I have a jackpot story from CAZ back when it was the tents. Was playing the 5-150 game (god i miss this game) and I was pretty green for casino poker. I was in late position with suited AK and I raised pre-flop like 15 and had one caller and the flop came AAA I am heads up and we both check the flop and the turn. They had called the floor over after the flop and I was thinking i better bet the river just in case they did not have a jackpot hand and I bet $50 and the table went ****ing nuts. The floor had to calm everybody down and the other player hesitated for 2 min before calling. They had pocket 10's so it was a jackpot. I was defiantly not aware of the etiquette involved but once the flop had come out the dealer made everybody shut up so there was no talking. I knew about the bad beat jackpot but not about the subtleties of post flop action. I was riding a buzz for hours afterwards of adrenaline and cash. I won 25% of around 17k for the BBJ and remember asking my father, who was a dealer there at the, time how much I should tip. I ended up tipping 300 to the dealer. I remember that my breech of etiquette almost cost us a jackpot because of my lack of experience and off logic.

**** this 'etiquette' BS. They are getting 170:1 on the offchance you have an A with a high enough kicker. If you don't, you still need a lower A or JJ-KK to beat them. It's simple math, but people are too stupid to understand.

Honestly I don't even understand this "etiquette" here. Why would there be any reason not to bet your hand on an AAA flop. no matter what you have? It's not like someone can draw to a jackpot here; either you have it, or you don't. If you have TT, are you supposed to give the guy free cards to hit his QJ?

It might make sense to check for the jackpot possibility was if there two aces on the flop, not three. (Like if you have AK and don't want big pocket pairs to fold in case you hit the third ace).

I also don't understand why they call the floor over when the flop is three aces. It just wastes time, and for what purpose? They don't call them over if there is a straight flush draw on board.

The way it was explained to me was this: By betting the river it gives the indication that my kicker has been counterfeited by the board, there by negating the jackpot, and would give reason for the pocket pair to fold.

Is this not correct or did I miss interpret their meaning here?

That could happen. 99% of players will check in the scenario you described.

Still doesn't make any sense. People think you are playing poker to bet so the other person can fold when you have the best hand and they can't draw out? Anyway, I was really talking about betting on the flop (or the turn), to protect your hand. Even on the river though, I would want people to know that I don't follow the silly "etiquette" so they have to pay me off, just in case.

How would i need to protect my hand? I flopped quad Aces! I want them to draw to a strong hand so i can get action.

I wasn't meaning for your hand in particular, but the idea that anytime the flop is three aces you should check it down.

Rob it's kind of an unwritten rule amongst the regular players in the limit jackpot games at CAZ. Although I kind of agree with you, I do think that doing things to keep the games friendly is generally good and long term EV+.

I've seen a jackpot folded face up when the ace bet. To Pope's point the pocket pair is getting ridiculous odds to call, but I promise you that the greed of the A to make the extra 16 bucks was hardly worth losing thousands.

This is of course assuming that the hand is heads up on the river. If multiway either the pocket pair or the ace has to bet to allow a counterfeitable hand to fold.

So he folded because he thought he wouldn't win the jackpot, or because he wanted to spite the rest of the players, when he would have gotten the biggest share? Seems pretty stupid either way.

This whole discussion is tilting me. The only justification I have ever heard that makes the BBJ a good thing for games is that it makes for extra action, but this seems like it actually is taking away action that would otherwise be there.

I think you misunderstand when the extra action is coming. it is not on the actual jackpot hand but on all the others. The extra action occurs because players will play hands that they shouldn't. They will see the flop-turn-river with any hand that has the long shot possibility of drawing to a BBJ even though its clear that they are behind.

May have been someone that wasn't really cognizant of the jackpot implications. Most places I play have no jackpot so I never think about it. Had I been passing through, stopped in to play, and been in that situation I might have folded too.

almost won the friday daily tourney, got 5th and played my last hand like a donkey....was actually surprised at the quality of the players to be honest. didn't see a lot of terribad plays except at the end where there was some people not pushing all in and just getting blinded away without making a stand.

You kind of contradicted yourself at the end, this is the biggest reason why these tourneys are so soft...but to be fair, you most likely just caught the daily tourney on an "off" day as far as not seeing too much terribad play all the way through.

Then again, maybe watching people play a tourney with a 48/8/0 vpip/pfr/3b stat line isn't considered bad in your eyes, so perhaps that's the reason.

is there any noticeable difference in quality of play from the 11 AM daily tourney to the 7 PM tues/wed tourneys or about the same?

Better path to a three rack win-3/5-500 or 20/40?
All factors considered on an equal basis, nights of week, games going, equal experience in either...Close call? or not?
Two rack buy-in to start each.

20/40 ainec

Ya I would agree that winning 38 big bets in the 20/40 game is easier than winning $1500 in the 3/5 game in a vacuum. However, if you are not a good limit player and are more suited for NL style poker, then 3/5 is by far the better choice.

It also will matter what time of day and what day of the week you play. The 3/5 game is best when there are 2 or 3 tables going so you have some choices with game/table selection.