Hey Val, congrats on the ring. I have purchased action from you before, but missed out on this one

Val, as a friend and former investor in multiple past packages of yours, your flat out refusal to even entertain 3rd party arbitration because Dan is "a big shot in the MP" is unreasonable and mind boggling. What disturbs me more so, however, is your refusal to acknowledge the question of why you sent a PM saying "what's going on?" to a self professed complete stranger that attempted investing in you BUT whose action you considered "non reserved" AFTER you had busted the first event of the disputed package. Not to mention that you added said stranger on Skype contacts AFTER he asked you to remind him via Skype about paying for his % in you AND you had already busted multiple tourneys in the disputed package.

Why would you continue to contact a complete stranger, whose action you "never reserved"?

Your steadfast refusal to allow arbitration, your unyielding and unfounded accusations about Dan "free rolling" you, and your silence regarding the question above in this situation speak volumes.

You have multiple people in this thread with spotless reputations proposing that you accept 3rd party arbitration, yet you refuse to even entertain the idea. If you are as right as you think you are, then what is the harm in taking this route?

You also have multiple people with spotless reputations in this thread who are telling you that Dan would NEVER -under ZERO circumstances - attempt to "free roll" you. He and I just completed a transaction where we swapped %s of horses we each had at the FT of this years WSOP main event. His horse went deeper, and he owed me an $85k difference. Not once was I ever worried about him "free rolling" me. Hell, I waited a month to pick up my money from him with NO worries, as I knew it would be there when I was ready to pick it up. This alone should tell you to at least accept arbitration.

My final opinion is this:
I believe that the 4% action is booked or "reserved" considering the contact between both parties after the initial bust out of the first event of the disputed package. However, miscommunication, laziness, and false accusations have lead us to the point we are at now, which is an unresolved state of limbo. There is a grey area here that needs to be resolved by a 3rd party arbitrator.

Lol, nothing to see here guys. Busto clearly stated that he was just saying high to notontilt on skype days after the pkg started. OP would never have excepted any money from notontilt at this time cuz he was never res'd. Sounds completely logical. Now plz let this drama bomb of a thread die so Busto can still get backed for $300 liveaments.

Regardless of how I see the situation, I do agree arbitration should be sought and agreed upon by both parties, GL.

Agree with zima and Ashly, It's absurd not to arbitrate the matter.

I'll also add that I have invested heavily in the MP the past couple years and have often played with OP on the USA serving sites. I viewed his packages as a good EV investment but because of his often ranting in table chat while losing a 60/40 and his lack of maturity/respect in the USA regs MTT thread, I choose to pass on investing in him at some point. I think his lack of maturity is also on display in this thread by choosing not to arbitrate.

Best choice would be iamwhale26 IMO

Just let him or whoever both parties agree on then move forward

I have answered that question a few times already, but you're not reading. I also told you on the phone. But I guess you weren't listening.

I added him. I didn't say anything to him, I didn't remind him of anything. The simple process of adding someone to Skype is not equivalent to saying "hey you got 4% of my action".

Because IMAGINE THAT, just fathom for a second, that I talk to people that didn't buy action in a certain package but maybe they might buy in the future.

They are not unyielding as I apologized already for them. And not unfounded as well, as given the timing of all the events.

You flat out state that there is ZERO chance he wouldn't have taken a freeroll but you strongly believe that I would in the sense that I would ask for his money after I would have bricked a package and that I reserved his package unlike the hundreds other reserves over tens of packages without ever stating so.

Dan congrats you've achieved your purpose: you managed to put a black spot on a happy moment in my life that I worked for a lot for. I hope you look back over this, and think about that moment that you "coincidentally" decided to send money and claim action that I never gave you. Karma always finds a way back.

I'm making a small cliff that I'm going to post in every related post just so people don't lose track of what this is.

i'm confused are you still accusing me of trying to freeroll you or not? It seems you apologized earlier, and are now accusing me again, to avoid the situation at hand.

I'm not attempting to "put a black spot" on any great moment in your life. I've congratulated you numerous times on the win. I've asked exactly one person to post in this thread on my behalf, the others coming to my defense (of which many I do not know and have had 0 lifetime interaction with) are posting because they simply agree with my side of the situation.

You're flat out refused arbitration, which is clearly the only way this will be solved. Posters who are posting on your behalf are agreeing the arbitration is the clear next step. Yet you still refuse.

You are more then welcome to come to your own defense in future threads, but everyone buying your action will be made aware that if things are somewhat grey in a matter, you will do everything in your power to **** on the other party.

To everyone that has posted in this thread besides Val and I,

Thank you for time and interest in the situation. I don't know many of you and haven't had business dealings in the past with you, but it means a lot that people in this marketplace stick together to try and make sure no one is taken advantage of.

It is clear we will not reach an agreement, and Val will not accept arbitration as a method to settle. If the moderators of this forum feel the need to do something about his flat out refusal to take the steps to rectify the situation, that is up to them.

- Dan

Just my opinion Val, and it seems to be the opinion of others as well. Trust me, Dan's intention was not to put a "black spot" on your reputation. Neither do I believe that you had some conscious vendetta to screw Dan out of a few hundred dollars. I'm merely stating my opinion when I say that I believe you should honor Dan's 4% action, that doesn't mean I'm 100% right. But I'm mature enough and experienced enough in these situations to admit when I'm not 100% certain. However, your childish and immature way of dealing with this situation will end up harming your ability to sell more action in the future to buyers(like myself and Dan) much more than any trust or communication issues ever could.

You clearly don't understand how a marketplace works. When there is a dispute between two parties, they first attempt to work out a solution on their own via improved communication. It seems that you have shut that avenue down from the get go man, without any second thought towards coming to a fair and/or amicable agreement. Once said parties can't come to an agreement, they usually decide to have a mutually trusted and respected non-biased 3rd party arbitrate the matter at hand. Again, you shoot this idea down without a VALID explanation, even though many intelligent people(including friends and those who believe you are in the right!) tell you it is the right path to choose. I just don't get it honestly, it doesn't add up.

It's not about the money. It never was. If it was about the money I would have taken a different route all along. As a matter of fact I will donate 4% of that tournament to charity to make it clear that it isn't for money. It's a matter of principle. And it's within my rights to do what I am doing. I understand that some people will not buy action from me. Something tells me that it will be people like mjcace who don't because I ranted on an online chat box a year ago. Others won't because of this. I'm not going to sell out on my principles to be able to sell a couple extra percentages.

I'm making a small cliff that I'm going to post in every related post just so people don't lose track of what this is.

Val,

For you own sake, I hope you never have any serious legal troubles in your future, as you cannot simply walk away from an unresolved situation.

The "principles" you are sticking to are flat out flawed as multiple people here have explained.

Please provide receipt of the 4% donation to charity.

Good luck in the rest of the events.

Also, the post you are quoting in your defense contains mistruths about me that you have already accepted and apologized for. I'd prefer if you change your statement to reflect the truth.

At no point did you (Busto23) show any indication that the action was cancelled. The PM + the Skype add points heavily in favour of the action being booked.

I would hope that your intention was to not freeroll here and that it is all just a big misunderstanding, but I really am left wondering if you would be collecting from notontilt09 had you bricked.

Does everyone agree that if Notontilt was some random, we all side with Busto, but to some, since he is "respected" in the MP he deserves to be allowed to be "lazy" and less clear of his intentions? Because I don't. I've never sold packages, but I've bought a few, and I don't think if I conducted business in the way notontilt did that anyone would come to my defense. If you had history with him specifically, that's a different case, but allowing exceptions because of how well you've treated others is a privilege not a right, in Busto's eyes you clearly have not earned that privilege, maybe if you were clearer on who you were and that the money was good, he would have excepted your action and posted itt as booked.

Beyond that, I think Busto comes off poorly and would lose in the court of public opinion, I've dealt with him in the past and that's just how he comes off sometimes it seems. He should of hired a lawyer to respond itt and I think he wins the argument.

Notontilt is better at presenting his argument, so arbitration would clearly benefit him more, but even with that being said, I believe it's needed. I also think that this is one of those situations where if both parties would step back and let it settled down for a week, they would come back and settle on something.

Good luck to both of you in the future.

I have money invested in this package (that was sent on time) and I would like my horse the ability to focus on my investment. Please stop until the package is over IMO.

Did Val ever let Dan know that he didn't have action?
If I post in a thread I assume the action is booked unless I'm told otherwise. Maybe that's wrong but idk. Def needed to be better communication here, Dan needed to confirm that he was booked and let Val know he'd send in a few days, and Val needed to let Dan know that he wasn't booked at all.

In cases like this where its clear Dan wanted the action I'm siding with him, especially because its very unclear whether Val was accepting the action or not. Like I said, IMO if u post in a thread and aren't told you don't have action, then you do have the action

How funny is this, I late reg the ME at Rincon and who's at my table? Busto himself, he's sitting on 94k from 20k SS. #runbetter

so is notontilt's action booked at least for the ME? since he sent late

Nice troll Dan was never and will never be booked for any of my action. Gonna donate the $400 from 6max asap #karma #rungood

I was going to respect Ryan's wish to end the discussion until the package was over, until Val has once again posted and brought my name into it.

This is true, if I had no posts and no reputation, the evidence would clearly support Val's claim.

My intentions, however, were very clear. I posted asking for 4%, and was given information where to send the money. After forgetting for 3 days, I asked Val to remind me on Skype so that I'd be able to send the money over (I sent PM from phone as I wasn't at computer and couldn't send lock $ then). He added me on Skype, which to me appears he's remind me to pay up.

By sending him the PM asking him to remind me to pay, I'm clearly confirming I still wanted the action. Val makes no mention at this point in time that my action was cancelled. That is until after he is CL at a FT 3 days later.


It does not matter if I have history with Val or if he knows my reputation. This marketplace is built around trusting that when someone posts to buy a % that they will send the money. In your opinion, everyone should post their reputation along with the action they'd like to buy so the seller makes sure he gets the best deal?

It is a buyers market, not a sellers.

Iv read one post but don't have to read anymore to know I'm going to take notontilts side. Dude wouldn't scam anyone or try to free role whatever is going on here. That being being said ill read this shiz

Val only cancelled my action after entering the FT as CL. It just so happens that I sent the money after thy information was made public, but it was merely coincidence. Val has already accepted this fact an apologized to me in this thread for accusing me of free rolling him

This sums up the matter rather well.

Val,

Either agree to arbitration to settle the matter or I'll ask a marketplace mod to review the thread and remove your MP posting abilities if he sees fit.

But take a few days first to finish the tournament and think it over. Others have invested their money in you, and I don't want to interfere with their investments.

Edit: sorry for typos, have made last few posts from phone.

Thanks Dan! I hope you guys sort this out. You both are good guys and this situation just sucks.

Ps...take down the main Val