Being a complete outsider to the situation and not have doing business with either one of you it looks like both of you were trying to angle each other. With that being said and upon further research it appears that the buyer is more in the right then the seller. A fair compromise would be 2% IMO.

I disagree that both parties were trying to angle each other. I believe that both parties had good intentions.

What appears to have happened here is this: busto looked only at the timing of all correspondence/transactions and made the assumption that he was being freerolled based solely on that. He did not take time to research Dan's reputation, or perhaps ask people mutual friends if Dan was the type of person to be dishonest/sketchy about his transactions in the MP. Busto immediately started firing with accusations of Dan attempting to freeroll him. However, after a large amount of evidence supporting Dan's reputation and refuting busto's case has surfaced, busto wants to save face by standing by his decision and not
A) accepting that he is in the wrong, or
B) agreeing to arbitration
because after putting up such a fight, it would be a lot for him to do A or B. I know that as an unbiased 2p2er active in the MP, I would be more likely to buy action from Dan than from Val based solely on the goings-on in this thread, and the level of professionalism Dan has displayed, versus the lack thereof on Val's part.

I do not suggest a 2% compromise because I do not think that that does anything to remove the tarnish on Val's reputation that has resulted from this thread. I, too, am a proponent of arbitration.

This is the main reason why Dan is spending all this time attacking me. I shouldn't have mentioned my belief in public, and that's why I apologized and still do. I can't take it back now I can only apologize for that. Doesn't change the facts and how I feel about them.

It's okay. I've had tens of packages and lots of happy investors. I didn't disobey any MP rules. Banning me would serve no purpose but to justify the hate some of these guys have for me; it's obviously not my decision. As far as I know there is no rule that states that I'm obligated to take arbitration in this scenario. If you wish to add that to the MP, then I will comply in the future.

I learned a lot from this experience and as people already have said, I didn't post packages here in hopes of scamming someone of a couple hundred dollars, and I'm sure that almost everyone agrees with that, maybe except Dan. In fact I didn't keep any of that money, I donated it to charity, to further prove the point.

I also would like to point out how unfair this whole thing Dan does is to the people that are honest investors in my package. Not only he's adding levels of stress which is definitely influencing my game in a negative matter, basically losing both me and them money, but it is really hard for them to keep track of what's going on with the actual package. I understand Dan only cares about this reputation and he's probably thinking that trying to make me look as bad as possible helps increase it somehow but these folk have no fault in this. I understand you all have lots of free time and nothing better to do but to post here but if you would quiet down for a few days until my package is over it would be appreciated.

In that note, coming back tomorrow with about 28 big blinds in the ME, 43 left 33 paid.

Let's goooooo!!! Forget this **** for now and go win this thing!

I'm not an investor for this current package, but for goodness sake people, put it to rest until the kid finishes the package. I'm sure that the investors who are confirmed would appreciate if Val wouldn't have to continually come on here to dispute accusations (right or wrong) and could appropriately focus on the task at hand.

I sincerely hope it does NOT come to that.

Per Val's twitter, he is out of the main event, so I'm going to make one more post here unless Val answers any of my questions. I'm then going to report him to the marketplace mods as I don't have the power to rectify the situation.

Val,

I haven't been attacking you, or attempting to do so at all in this thread. We're having a debate: I'm presenting evidence to support my side, and you are whining about principles and refusing to listen to anybody's coherent arguments as to why you are wrong, or should at least accept arbitration to settle the matter.

You continue to contend that at no point you ever considered my action booked. I and others have asked you countless times why you contacted me twice after busting events inquiring as to where the money was. You have still yet to answer this question.

Every time someone presents a legitimate, well-written post (whether it sides with my argument or suggest arbitration) you shoot it down and assume it is one of my friends attacking your reputation. The fact is this, you don't (or shortly will not) have any sort of reputation in this community after your actions resolving this dispute. I have asked exactly 1 person to post in this thread on my behalf, and he posted very early in the thread before anything was getting to the point it is now.

A couple of points to end this:

1) You mention tens of times in this thread that you never considered me an investor. Here is the original PM you send me after I posted asking for 4% in the thread.

I've removed your sensitive information.

I have bolded the last line. I'll let the moderators and everyone else form their own conclusions, as to whether or not you ever considered me an investor. Keep in mind, you never mentioned anything about my action being cancelled until you were chip leader at a final table.

2) You decided a fair method of settling the dispute would be sending 4% of your 6max win to charity. I agreed this would be a good idea. Hendon mob has your 1st place cash listed at $10,858. You provided a receipt of donation of $400 to charity. This was a very nice gesture, but you managed to round down the correct amount of $432.32.

Do you also plan on rounding down your other investors %'s to an even $100, as I don't think they will be as accepting as the charity was. You make it very clear that "a few hundred bucks" isn't a big deal for you, why not hold up to your word and donate the correct amount.

3) It's very clear I will not be getting any money out of this situation. That is not why I've pursued this so hard. I'd prefer for no one to get taken advantage in this marketplace, and in my opinion, that is exactly why you have tried to do here. Good luck selling action elsewhere.

Well if that doesn't prove your case, I don't know what will.

busto23, how much of a payment were you going to accept after you busted the first event? Enough to cover the whole package or just the remaining nine events?

It is clear that notontilt09's action was booked, just as it is clear that busto23 is freerolling and hiding behind the guise of principles. Any response short of a Marketplace ban will be a black mark on these forums. We are witnessing a respected member being robbed of his equity in this package.

That PM is pretty damning evidence in favor of Dan's action being booked. Did you really never consider Dan being an investor Val? It truly looks like the only one getting "free rolled" here was Dan IMO. How delusional are you Val to not settle privately or at the very least accept arbitration, considering you knew that you authored that PM to Dan? Your sense of self entitlement amazes! I would love to hear your defense at this point, in lieu of the PM that Dan posted. Consider me a former investor as well, as I won't be investing in you in the future. People like you have no place doing business in this marketplace. I would also like to hear the current opinions of those who sided with Val, considering the new evidence supporting Dan's case.

Not sure why that PM wasn't posted earlier, it certainly raises some concerns as to whether Dan was considered an investor.

If Val said "ty for investing" I'd see this as booked now. Def a game changer right there considering the acknowledgment.

Val,

You keep citing your reputation and how flawless it is, which I believe, but you fail to realize that Dan has just as good, if not a better reputation than you do. Just because you have a great reputation and think you are in the right here (you very well may be) does not give you the right to just "consider the matter closed" when the other side of the party clearly does not consider it closed.

Not going to arbitration for the reasons that jimmyc123, Ashly, and Zima have said, is pretty ridiculous.

Right. It's okay, keep up the politician talk.

I've answered it and you ignored it time after time. Just because I was contacting you doesn't mean I booked your action. Not sure where exactly you lose the logic on this.

Oh, I'm sorry I forgot the subtract the buyins for the first few events, I played which leads it to less than $400 but I rounded it up.

You tried to take advantage of me. I called you out publicly then you started the war. I guess you have a lot more friends here than I do and you'll easily win the PR war on the internet.

And, to show you that it's not very clear, and to make sure everyone goes to sleep tight, I will accept arbitration. I want to vet the person who does it, and I want it to be private.

The money donated to the charity will remain there, and I'm happy with it.

PS At the end of the day, when you look in the mirror, you know who you are: the person who saw an opportunity and took it when you knew it was wrong.

Because no respected 2+2 has ever scammed? This thinking is why the decision is split. Any random <50 poster booking that action with Val and they would have been chastised for angling. However when Dan does it, it should be honored because he is respected among 2+2. Clearly neither one of these players are aware of the other outside of this thread.

Val handled this terribly and this is the most likely reason this thread got out of control. Unbelievable people continued piling on while the package was ongoing.

/(useless)opinionbynon-investor

In other news I got 2nd in the turbo, lost with AA versus 99 for equal stacks headsup. Fortunately I managed to get a deal done with 3 players in (I had 25% of chips in play at the time) for more than second place $7,500.

I'm going to Mammoth to snowboard in a few hours, so I'll do the numbers sometime later in the week.

^ so another $300 for you, notontilt charity

The phrase "Thanks for investing!," led me to believe I was booked. Imagine that?

You've already agreed and apologized that you're wrong in thinking I did anything to take advantage of you. Now's not the best time to start accusing me again.

Good. First time in the whole thread you've said something with some sense in it. I'd imagine we can get one of the moderators from this forum to arbitrate the situation. You can do all of the vetting you'd like, and we'll keep the arbitration itself private.

I'm quite happy with what I see. How many times are you going to keep trying to throw the blame on me, when the situation arose because you in fact are guilty of exactly what you are accusing me of?

I used to buy/sell quite a bit of action in the marketplace, I'll arbitrate if you want.

Great run Val! Congrats on being the circuit champ!! And all the new monies!!!

Nice work! GGs

The situation arose due to the fact that you didn't send the money before the package started due to laziness (your own words, not mine). Just because you have a flawless rep you shouldn't assume everyone knows that. In my opinion, the action was not booked. Yes, Val sent you a PM after he busted the FIRST event. It was a multiple game package so I'm guessing Val was giving you one more shot at that moment to send, but you waited til he busted a couple more games and became cl at a ft to send before you sent. I don't think you were trying to freeroll but it definitely appears that way from Val's view imo.
Not hating, just throwing my useless two cents out there. I'm glad arbitration has been agreed upon. I just think, unless you know the investor personally, you should send the money in order to be booked before the package starts, unless a late payment has been agreed upon. glgl

As an investor in this package, I would like to help it reach a conclusion by reviewing the relevant facts and ignoring the drama and accusations.

November 21 - Val posts package
Dec 6, 10am - Dan makes offer of $300 Lock for 4%
Dec 6, 11am - Val counter offers $320 Lock for 4%
Dec 6, 1pm - Val busts Event #1
sometime on Dec 6, Val sends Dan payment instructions
Dec 7 - Val busts Event #2, skips Event #3
sometime on Dec 7, Val sends a PM asking "What's going on?"
Dec 8 - Val skips Event #4a and #4b
Dec 9 - Val busts Event #5
sometimes on Dec 9, Dan PM's Val and apologizes for non payment
Dec 10 - Val busts Event #6
Dec 11 - Val ends day 1 of Event #7 as CL
Dec 12, noon - Dan sends money

If I have these facts wrong or am missing something important, please correct.

MY OPINION
I think Val thought he had an investor when he sent payment instructions on Dec 6. A follow up PM on Dec 7 after payment was not promptly received seems standard and he probably thought Dan was still investing. Dan sends a PM on Dec 9 apologizing for not sending and Val probably feels Dan is still investing. But Dan does not send until Dec 12. I feel Dan had plenty of time to send funds and if Dan sent a PM, seems like Dan could have sent funds too. If you put me in Val's shoes on Dec 11, I would probably think you were an investor who changed his mind and backed out. Unless Val confirmed with Dan that this delay was acceptable, I would say no cash, no action.

I also feel both parties were not trying to scam or freeroll the other. Val thought an investor cancelled by their action of non-payment and Dan simply forgot to send the money by accident.

Full Disclosure - I invested in this package and several others Val has sold on 2+2. We have some mutual friends. I have met him only twice briefly in a casino and never outside of a casino. I don't know Dan at all.

+1 as an investor as well. I know Val and met Dan this summer at the WSOP. Both good guys and neither tried to angle or freeroll each other.

who is gonna arbitrate this?

I'm not sure how to go about finding an arbitrator. It appears Val is out of town for the next week or so, but I'd like to get it done ASAP before the holidays.

JW123, I respect your opinion, but I'd prefer if the arbitrator wasn't involved with the package in any way, and has not previously voiced their opinion in this thread.

Zima, would you recommend just PM'ing the MP mods and asking if any of them are up to the task?