The „Leffe” challenge: flatten the red line - Page 11 - Poker Blogs and Goals -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

There were some interesting hands. In the first one villain was a huge aggrodonk fish (54/23, postflop overly aggro), SB was unknown. What's our plan for the hand?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $10.24 (102.4 bb)
BTN: $9.85 (98.5 bb)
SB: $10.40 (104 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T

CO raises to $0.40, BTN folds, SB calls $0.35, Hero thinks about squeezing...

In the second hand villain was a fishy player (28/13 over 54 hands) who might have been on tilt as he lost 2 BI against a huge fish. OTF he had c/r'd 2/2 before this hand (although once w/ a flopped 2pair). I had a weak/tight image. Is bluff raising/shoving OTF profitable?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BB: $9.84 (98.4 bb)
MP: $40.16 (401.6 bb)
CO: $13.49 (134.9 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10.20 (102 bb)
SB: $11.24 (112.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.75) 6

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.54, SB folds, BB raises to $1.30, Hero ???

Quote

06-01-2011 , 06:05 PM

#252

baohoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2Lazy2Work

DC have a free 7 day trial. I believe you would appreciate their "The thin red line" series. I think "The thin red grind" is some kind of follow-up, but haven't had time to watch it yet.

yeah that's right. you just need to remember to unscribe before the trial period ends. also you can actually download all the videos as a standard member, and keep them.

Quote

06-01-2011 , 06:16 PM

#253

baohoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

Well, not a good start for the month (even if running significantly under EV).

There were some interesting hands. In the first one villain was a huge aggrodonk fish (54/23, postflop overly aggro), SB was unknown. What's our plan for the hand?

CO raises to $0.40, BTN folds, SB calls $0.35, Hero thinks about squeezing...

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.75) 6

(3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.54, SB folds, BB raises to $1.30, Hero ???

TT hand: being oop with a vulnarable hand that is way ahead of OR range i prefer squeezing a lot. SB range is weak as well, mainly small/medium PPs and broadways with the occasional sc.
OR calling range is probably wide as well. against a villain like this we should 3bet wider for value, and bluff next to 0 unless he folds a lot which is unlikely.

AQ hand i'd honestly let it go. when somebody's tilting i prefer a made hand because they might hero call. I would also raise more pre vs. him. you might consider adjusting your PFR size when there are fishes on the blinds.

Quote

06-02-2011 , 02:55 AM

#254

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

OK, so we squeeze and the fish 4bets to 30BB and the cold caller folds. No what? Can we shove given we haven't seen the fish 4bet (over 30ish hands)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

AQ hand i'd honestly let it go. when somebody's tilting i prefer a made hand because they might hero call. I would also raise more pre vs. him. you might consider adjusting your PFR size when there are fishes on the blinds.

Yes, that's something I have to work on hard.

Quote

06-02-2011 , 03:48 PM

#255

furkae

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

I had a quite good session today. I was more aggro postflop than usual and it immediately resulted in some success. Actually the biggest losing hand was the one where I held KJ and a huge fish donk triple barreled me on 77Jx7 (holding 76).

Quote

06-03-2011 , 10:24 AM

#256

furkae

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

I have played two shorter sessions today. The first one was quite terrible.

Two hands where a fish limp/raised preflop. In the first one I think I had enough odds to call in each street (incl. the river as he might have had AK too).

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $9.82 (98.2 bb)
BTN: $10.09 (100.9 bb)
Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $4.74 (47.4 bb)
UTG: $8.47 (84.7 bb)
MP: $8.10 (81 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, BTN raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.40, BB folds, UTG raises to $0.80, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($2.15) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($2.75) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

River: ($3.95) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Hero calls $1

Results: $5.95 pot ($0.28 rake)
Final Board: 5

Hero mucked 7

and lost (-$2.70 net)
UTG showed A

and won $5.67 ($2.97 net)

In the second hand villain was 34/7 over 41 hands. Can we call preflop?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $5.27 (52.7 bb)
BB: $6.97 (69.7 bb)
UTG: $3.88 (38.8 bb)
MP: $15.39 (153.9 bb)
CO: $10.20 (102 bb)
Hero (BTN): $13.77 (137.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, UTG raises to $3.88 and is all-in, Hero ???

Quote

06-03-2011 , 04:13 PM

#257

furkae

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Another terrible session.

I've downloaded the "The Thin Red Line" series from DC. Hope it'll help a bit...

Quote

06-04-2011 , 03:34 PM

#258

furkae

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

I was running below EV again and run into AA w/ KK but not a bad day altogether.

The usual graph and stats since this thread started:

Volume: 31.091 hands (this week: 3.419)
VP$IP/PFR: 23/19 (this week 22/19)
3bet: 4.4 (this week: 5.1)
Win-rate: 4,94 bb/100 (this week: -2.45 bb/100 )
WR w/o SD: -12.69 bb/100 (this week: -11.83 bb/100)

I have just realized my flop c-bet% has been very low again: only 61.4% (w/ a success rate of 48.7%) since I started this thread 9 weeks ago. So the next thing will be to find out if I can increase it profitably. As usual I'll start experimenting and we'll see how it goes.

Quote

06-04-2011 , 03:57 PM

#259

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

One hand from today were the villain was a 19/12 (over 279 hands), but he had a 3bet of 7.6% (16% from the BB!) and a squeeze of 19%. Do we c-bet OTF? If yes, how big?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

UTG: $4.80 (48 bb)
MP: $4.28 (42.8 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)
SB: $6.94 (69.4 bb)
BB: $11.49 (114.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $2.80, BTN folds, BB calls $1.55

Flop: ($5.95) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ???

Quote

06-04-2011 , 04:51 PM

#260

Speedin'

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

One hand from today were the villain was a 19/12 (over 279 hands), but he had a 3bet of 7.6% (16% from the BB!) and a squeeze of 19%. Do we c-bet OTF? If yes, how big?

2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, BB raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $2.80, BTN folds, BB calls $1.55

Flop: ($5.95) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ???

First things first. Proper adjustment to wide 3bet is flating wider range IP. Not 4b expacialy if he's 3b betting polarized range. So if you ask me this is clearly fold pre. As played I wouldn't cbet on that board with that opponent.

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06-05-2011 , 03:35 AM

#261

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

Thx for the answer. I prefer 4betting light to calling wider as I'm quite lost in 3bet pots w/o initiative. As played I c-bet smallish (around 2/5 pot) he tanked and folded. This board isn't that bad (except if he has JJ) as I don't think he stacks off w/ 99/TT and it didn't hit his AK/AQ range.

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06-05-2011 , 07:36 AM

#262

Speedin'

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

I don't think that's his 4b calling range. Any of that hands he would ship or fold. I would put him on AA KK or some suited mid to high hands. And do you really think he calls 4b with hands you said and fold on J high flop?

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06-05-2011 , 07:51 AM

#263

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

I don't really know which hands he calls a 4bet OOP with. I don't think he calls w/ KK/AA but having some higher SC in his range is not completely impossible. It's NL10 so I don't think he always ships w/ AK or TT/JJ. He's certainly not shoving w/ AQ against me.

Quote

06-05-2011 , 08:01 AM

#264

Speedin'

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

Why are you so sure he isn't calling w/ KK/AA? If you 4b polarized range it's good thing to do that. He will get value on your cbet if you are on bad end of polarized range and stack you if you are on strong range. I really don't see him calling 4b OOP with TT/JJ.

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:13 AM

#265

baohoa

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Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

OK, so we squeeze and the fish 4bets to 30BB and the cold caller folds. No what? Can we shove given we haven't seen the fish 4bet (over 30ish hands)?

Yes, that's something I have to work on hard.

how many tables is he playing? what hands did he take to Sd, if any?
if we're not shoving then squeezing a hand like TT is bad (if we're folding we turn our hand in a bluff).
so squeeze TT= shove here.
if we're not shoving then i prefer flatting. was he aggro pre too? did he 3 bet before?
if we only know he's aggro post flop then we could flat and x/raise any dry flop.

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06-05-2011 , 09:20 AM

#266

baohoa

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

I have played two shorter sessions today. The first one was quite terrible.

Two hands where a fish limp/raised preflop. In the first one I think I had enough odds to call in each street (incl. the river as he might have had AK too).

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, BTN raises to $0.45, Hero calls $0.40, BB folds, UTG raises to $0.80, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($2.15) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($2.75) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60

River: ($3.95) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Hero calls $1

Results: $5.95 pot ($0.28 rake)
Final Board: 5

Hero mucked 7

and lost (-$2.70 net)
UTG showed A

and won $5.67 ($2.97 net)

In the second hand villain was 34/7 over 41 hands. Can we call preflop?

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, UTG raises to $3.88 and is all-in, Hero ???

77 hand villain has always AA here. so calling pre is fine. otf is marginal because of the board texture, but ok imo. ott it,s a fold as i'm not so sure we get paid if we hit . river is def a fold. don't care about the odds here, he can't be bluffing with this line.

JJ really depends on ou image. if we kept on raising him when limping i'd call. he can have any PP or Ax hand here. if not i'd fold becauseit's AA- AK more often than not.

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:24 AM

#267

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

Why are you so sure he isn't calling w/ KK/AA?

Because he was unlikely to have seen me 4bet/fold which means I had a very strong range and (in his eyes) I would have certainly called his shove. In my experience a very few people 4bet bluff at NL10.

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06-05-2011 , 09:35 AM

#268

baohoa

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Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

fold pre imo. if we were otb and HU i'd consider flatting and raise or shove any flop that gives us some equity if villain cbets too much in 3 bet pots, or float if we,re sure he gives up ott. that requires some reads though. as played (4bet larger as we're still 3 handed and don't want it to go mw) i'd check back and fold whenever it is possible. range here is probably 99-JJ, AJ+, Kq. villain is probably bad also.

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06-05-2011 , 09:38 AM

#269

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

how many tables is he playing? what hands did he take to Sd, if any?
if we're not shoving then squeezing a hand like TT is bad (if we're folding we turn our hand in a bluff).
so squeeze TT= shove here.
if we're not shoving then i prefer flatting. was he aggro pre too? did he 3 bet before?
if we only know he's aggro post flop then we could flat and x/raise any dry flop.

I squeezed as I expected him to call w/ a wide range and I didn't want to play this hand 3-way OOP postflop. At that time I only had about 30 hands on him and I didn't have any special reads.

Flatting and x/r'ing dry flops seems a good idea but but is it really profitable 3-way too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

Looking back I agree w/ you on folding OTR but it kills my red line

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

JJ really depends on ou image. if we kept on raising him when limping i'd call. he can have any PP or Ax hand here. if not i'd fold becauseit's AA- AK more often than not.

I can't remember exactly now but it's likely I raised his limps before. I ended up folding though.

Thx for your answers!

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:43 AM

#270

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by baohoa

I don't call ever w/ this hand as I said I'm not that good postflop. It seems I misplayed this hand quite a bit...

Quote

06-05-2011 , 10:08 AM

#271

Speedin'

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

Exactly that I was saying. He benefits by flating w/AA/KK in any way. Lets say 90% you will have strong hand and stack off postflop as you would pre. + 10% bluffs where he can get some more money by also flating.

Quote

06-05-2011 , 11:37 AM

#272

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

Exactly that I was saying. He benefits by flating w/AA/KK in any way. Lets say 90% you will have strong hand and stack off postflop as you would pre. + 10% bluffs where he can get some more money by also flating.

Well, I'm not so sure about this. A lot of flops can kill the action if I have let's say QQ and he just calls my 4bet. I think he loses money not 5bet shoving w/ KK/AA. I would only do this against somebody I have had a lot of history. I seriously think calling a 4bet (esp. OOP) has little to no merit w/o history. And I don't think a reggish NL10 player 4bet bluffs 10% (or more).

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06-05-2011 , 12:16 PM

#273

Speedin'

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So lets say his range is what baohoa wrote 99-JJ, AJ+, KQ (I would add some SC but ok). You are 70/30 favorite in 4b pot and you will fold your QQ?

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06-05-2011 , 12:40 PM

#274

furkae

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Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedin'

So lets say his range is what baohoa wrote 99-JJ, AJ+, KQ (I would add some SC but ok). You are 70/30 favorite in 4b pot and you will fold your QQ?

Yes, if an A or a K comes to the board and he bets on one of the streets. I can even fold on other bad flops like 7TJ if he c/r.

On the other hand I don't think villain's range is that wide but I really have no evidence it isn't.

What hands do you call a 4bet with OOP w/o too much history and being 100BB deep? Against what kind of players?

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06-05-2011 , 01:33 PM

#275

Speedin'

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Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by furkae

I don't call 4bets. Only sometimes with AA/KK, mostly against bad aggressive/ spewy players. And a lot of players spew in 4b pots so its very profitable.

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