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05-10-2011 , 02:37 PM
AK hand i don't think we can call. this flop is meh for cbetting, as villain's flatting range could include JJ-QQ, AQ. in a single raised spot a like it better 'cause we have a lot of good cards to barrell ott.

A6 hand what's villan foldt3bet? foldtcbet? i'd probably 3bet smaller anyway. agree on turn card which is not good for our perceived range
Quote
05-10-2011 , 02:55 PM
Hey man! Looks like you are doing good.

On that A6 hand as baohoa said what is his fold to 3-bet % ?

Is your goal still to flatten your red line?

I'll start to follow more and input where I can

GL.
Quote
05-11-2011 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
AK hand i don't think we can call. this flop is meh for cbetting, as villain's flatting range could include JJ-QQ, AQ. in a single raised spot a like it better 'cause we have a lot of good cards to barrell ott.

A6 hand what's villan foldt3bet? foldtcbet? i'd probably 3bet smaller anyway. agree on turn card which is not good for our perceived range
Thx again for contributing! I was a bit tilted so I called. He showed 95hh (what else?) and turned his flush.

In the A6 hand I didn't have too many hands on villain. It was the first time when he faced a 3bet. I should have c/f'ed OTF I think and def. not barrel OTT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierKing
Hey man! Looks like you are doing good.

On that A6 hand as baohoa said what is his fold to 3-bet % ?

Is your goal still to flatten your red line?

I'll start to follow more and input where I can

GL.
Thx for reading! Yes, my only goal now is to achive a better red line. I hope I can make it to around -6 bb/100 (so still losing with it!) so that my overall WR will be around 10 bb/100. PS is very soft at NL10. The main problem is if I can't do it I seriously think I wouldn't be a (big) winner at NL25.

And now the Leffe session from yesterday. We were running under EV but it was still profitable.



Our basic stats: 34/29, 8% 3bet, 63% steal, 40% postflop aggression.
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05-11-2011 , 11:24 AM
I keep running terrible... and on top of that also playing badly...



Villain in this hand is a not too bad LAG playing 32/21 (over 97 hands), 7% 3bet. I don't think he folds anything on this flop he called my 4bet with preflop.

    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    MP: $6.07 (60.7 bb)
    Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
    BTN: $7.50 (75 bb)
    SB: $6.80 (68 bb)
    BB: $10 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 7 A
    MP folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $0.99, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.40, BTN calls $1.41

    Flop: ($4.95) T Q J (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $5.10 and is all-in, Hero folds

    Results: $4.95 pot ($0.24 rake)
    Final Board: T Q J
    Hero mucked 7 A and lost (-$2.40 net)
    BTN mucked and won $4.71 ($2.31 net)
    Quote
    05-11-2011 , 04:07 PM
    Under EV but at least in the green.



    I've noticed I c-bet less and less OTF. In the first hand villain was an annoying fishy LAG (33/14 over 157 hands, postflop quite aggro, F2CB: 3/6, raise CB 2/6). Does hero c-bet?

      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (BTN): $10.20 (102 bb)
      SB: $7.04 (70.4 bb)
      BB: $12.08 (120.8 bb)
      UTG: $6.45 (64.5 bb)
      MP: $17.30 (173 bb)
      CO: $5 (50 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3 3
      3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, BB folds

      Flop: ($0.60) J 2 4 (2 players)
      SB checks, Hero ???


      In the second hand both of my opponents were loose/passive fish. Does hero c-bet?

        Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

        SB: $7.90 (79 bb)
        BB: $10 (100 bb)
        UTG: $8.73 (87.3 bb)
        MP: $11.16 (111.6 bb)
        CO: $10.18 (101.8 bb)
        Hero (BTN): $10.19 (101.9 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BTN with J A
        UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, SB calls $0.35, BB folds, UTG calls $0.30

        Flop: ($1.30) Q K 6 (3 players)
        SB checks, UTG checks, Hero ???
        Quote
        05-11-2011 , 06:27 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by furkae
        Under EV but at least in the green.



        I've noticed I c-bet less and less OTF. In the first hand villain was an annoying fishy LAG (33/14 over 157 hands, postflop quite aggro, F2CB: 3/6, raise CB 2/6). Does hero c-bet?

          Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

          Hero (BTN): $10.20 (102 bb)
          SB: $7.04 (70.4 bb)
          BB: $12.08 (120.8 bb)
          UTG: $6.45 (64.5 bb)
          MP: $17.30 (173 bb)
          CO: $5 (50 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3 3
          3 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.20, BB folds

          Flop: ($0.60) J 2 4 (2 players)
          SB checks, Hero ???


          In the second hand both of my opponents were loose/passive fish. Does hero c-bet?

            Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

            SB: $7.90 (79 bb)
            BB: $10 (100 bb)
            UTG: $8.73 (87.3 bb)
            MP: $11.16 (111.6 bb)
            CO: $10.18 (101.8 bb)
            Hero (BTN): $10.19 (101.9 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is BTN with J A
            UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.40, SB calls $0.35, BB folds, UTG calls $0.30

            Flop: ($1.30) Q K 6 (3 players)
            SB checks, UTG checks, Hero ???

            back in green!

            33 hand i think we can cbet 1/2 pot and make it profitable (we need it to work 1 time out of 3 and this is probably the case and a good board too)

            AJ hand it really depends on the SB imo. i expect utg to miss this flop a lot, but SB cold called an iso raise which can mean anything of course but i'd give him a little more credit. i'd check SB stats first. and anyway if either one of them has very low foldtcbet i'd probably check.
            Quote
            05-12-2011 , 04:22 PM
            Again one BI under EV (lost w/ KK vs JJ preflop AI) but at least my red line was flat. I'm also happy that my 3bets work well.



            In this hand villain was a huge fish (58/12, postflop overly aggro). He always donked 1BB OTF and couldn't fold. But what about the turn? Easy fold or crying fold or crying call?

              Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

              MP: $5.35 (53.5 bb)
              Hero (CO): $10.50 (105 bb)
              BTN: $4.02 (40.2 bb)
              SB: $10 (100 bb)
              BB: $10 (100 bb)
              UTG: $10.11 (101.1 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is CO with K A
              UTG calls $0.10, MP folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.30

              Flop: ($0.95) T K 7 (2 players)
              UTG bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.76, UTG calls $0.66

              Turn: ($2.47) 8 (2 players)
              UTG bets $8.95 and is all-in, Hero ???


              EDIT: One more thing to mention: I mustn't play four tables (only three). I simply cannot concentrate on all the tables enough.

              Last edited by furkae; 05-12-2011 at 04:25 PM. Reason: No fourth table.
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              05-12-2011 , 07:25 PM
              how much aggro? did you ever see him with a hand at SD?
              i think it's pretty close here, he could shove with a worse king and a really strong hand usually go for a x/raise after the flop action. his line makes no sense.
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 01:54 AM
              Until that hand I hadn't seen him get to SD. He had been donking and betting a lot postflop.

              I think such a move means "I have a strong but vulnerable hand"... and he really did. I called and he showed a turned two pair (T8). I think it was a bad call given there were no flush draws out. Although he was somehow maniac but the only hand I beat is KQ or TJ perhaps.
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 03:19 AM
              i don't know, when he donks twice he surely has something, and the shove ott is so wierd. again, i think it's close and probably folding here is never a big mistake given we didn't invest that much and that this line is never a bluff.
              also when you see somebody donkbetting you want to take notes on the sizes and board texture. if he did donk a lot (small) and played passively when reraised, then in this situation is an easy fold. if he took this line more times (donk-call raise-donk shove ott) i then i don't hate calling because he could easily overvalue Kx and play it wierd.
              now we know he actually plays straightforwardly, he bets small with a weak hand and big with a good one, without thinking how to make the most money. you can take advantage of that very easily (if you meet him again...)
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 03:25 AM
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by baohoa
              i don't know, when he donks twice he surely has something, and the shove ott is so wierd. again, i think it's close and probably folding here is never a big mistake given we didn't invest that much and that this line is never a bluff.
              also when you see somebody donkbetting you want to take notes on the sizes and board texture. if he did donk a lot (small) and played passively when reraised, then in this situation is an easy fold. if he took this line more times (donk-call raise-donk shove ott) i then i don't hate calling because he could easily overvalue Kx and play it wierd.
              now we know he actually plays straightforwardly, he bets small with a weak hand and big with a good one, without thinking how to make the most money. you can take advantage of that very easily (if you meet him again...)
              Thx baohoa! I didn't have appropriate reads on him that's why I think calling is bad here. On the other hand he gave back some of it till he busted .
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 03:56 AM
              Hi.

              Been reading your thread for a while now, nice progress you're making, keep it up!

              I play micros too, currently 5NL, but I'm getting rolled for 10NL slowly, so will soon join your bandwagon
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 04:00 AM
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by fairyquid
              Hi.

              Been reading your thread for a while now, nice progress you're making, keep it up!

              I play micros too, currently 5NL, but I'm getting rolled for 10NL slowly, so will soon join your bandwagon
              Thx fairyquid, you're welcome!
              Quote
              05-13-2011 , 06:44 AM
              A short morning session.



              I had some problems w/ my light 3bets like this. Villain was 39/31 (over 78 hands), steal from the SB: 43%.

                Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                CO: $13.85 (138.5 bb)
                BTN: $3 (30 bb)
                SB: $12.32 (123.2 bb)
                Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
                UTG: $10 (100 bb)
                MP: $10 (100 bb)

                Preflop: Hero is BB with 2 6
                4 folds, SB raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, SB calls $0.60

                Flop: ($1.80) 5 A J (2 players)
                SB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.50, SB raises to $11.42 and is all-in, Hero folds

                Results: $4.80 pot ($0.23 rake)
                Final Board: 5 A J
                SB mucked and won $4.57 ($2.17 net)
                Hero mucked 2 6 and lost (-$2.40 net)


                Some minutes later I lost another 3bet pot against him which made me tilted so I thought I should punish the other light 3bettors by 4betting them. Actually it worked.

                In the first hand villain was 30/26, 4/21 resteals from the blinds.

                  Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players
                  Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                  BB: $7.17 (71.7 bb)
                  Hero (BTN): $10.30 (103 bb)
                  SB: $19.84 (198.4 bb)

                  Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 A
                  Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $0.80, BB folds, Hero raises to $2.40, SB folds

                  Results: $1.70 pot
                  Hero mucked 9 A and won $1.70 ($0.90 net)


                  In the second hand villain was taggish but restole a lot from the SB (3/8).

                    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
                    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                    SB: $22.18 (221.8 bb)
                    BB: $6.72 (67.2 bb)
                    CO: $5.15 (51.5 bb)
                    Hero (BTN): $10.95 (109.5 bb)

                    Preflop: Hero is BTN with 6 A
                    CO folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $1, BB folds, Hero raises to $2.40, SB folds

                    Results: $2.10 pot
                    Hero mucked 6 A and won $2.10 ($1.10 net)
                    Quote
                    05-13-2011 , 11:36 AM
                    4betting light with blockers vs. resteal works well. wp.
                    26o hand i would never do it with that hand. especially IP. better have a tp kind of hand, because IP you can pot control better, and have a blocker.
                    otf i don't like raising the donkbet even if it's small, because it's a 3bet pot. in a single raised pot i like it better.
                    sometimes the spot is too good and you want to 3bet with ATC, anyway. so if that was the case i wouldn't mind.
                    Quote
                    05-13-2011 , 04:11 PM
                    Two more sessions from today. Tragical red line and (almost) BE result. My 3bets work well, I think I'm finding better and better spots (both as a bluff and as a thin value/protection raise).



                    In the first hand I think I should have snap shoved OTT. He was basically repping AK and I don't really now why I got scared of his min raise. It was villain's first hand (out of 8) when he VP$IP. On the other hand WTF was he doing OTF?!?

                      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
                      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                      SB: $8.62 (86.2 bb)
                      Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
                      MP: $12.84 (128.4 bb)
                      CO: $10.09 (100.9 bb)
                      BTN: $10 (100 bb)

                      Preflop: Hero is BB with T T
                      MP raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.20

                      Flop: ($0.65) 7 T 9 (2 players)
                      Hero checks, MP checks

                      Turn: ($0.65) K (2 players)
                      Hero bets $0.46, MP raises to $1, Hero calls $0.54

                      River: ($2.65) A (2 players)
                      Hero checks, MP bets $2, Hero calls $2

                      Results: $6.65 pot ($0.32 rake)
                      Final Board: 7 T 9 K A
                      Hero mucked T T and lost (-$3.30 net)
                      MP showed K K and won $6.33 ($3.03 net)


                      The second hand was my very first hand at that table. All opponents were completely unknown. To c-bet or not to c-bet OTF?

                        Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
                        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                        MP: $8.52 (85.2 bb)
                        CO: $6.05 (60.5 bb)
                        BTN: $10.72 (107.2 bb)
                        SB: $9.92 (99.2 bb)
                        Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)

                        Preflop: Hero is BB with K A
                        CO posts BB OOP, MP raises to $0.30, CO folds, BTN calls $0.30, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.50, MP folds, BTN calls $1.20

                        Flop: ($3.45) T 9 J (2 players)
                        Hero ???


                        In the third hand villain was an unknown fishy player (over 10 hands or so). Who's calling OTF w/ a pot odds of 33%?

                          Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players
                          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                          BTN: $4.04 (40.4 bb)
                          Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
                          BB: $10.05 (100.5 bb)

                          Preflop: Hero is SB with A K
                          BTN calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, BB calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30

                          Flop: ($1.20) 9 4 9 (3 players)
                          Hero bets $0.85, BB folds, BTN raises to $3.64 and is all-in, Hero ???


                          EDIT: I have found a lot of good threads on defending against donk bets. I'm reading them...

                          Last edited by furkae; 05-13-2011 at 04:16 PM. Reason: Reading posts on defending against donk bets.
                          Quote
                          05-13-2011 , 04:48 PM
                          furkae whats your name on stars?
                          Quote
                          05-13-2011 , 04:52 PM
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Shippin Nickels
                          furkae whats your name on stars?
                          PM sent. Please do not share it!
                          Quote
                          05-13-2011 , 06:51 PM
                          TT hand, yeah 3bet turn and get it in. as played i like the way you played the river.

                          AKs i don't like cbetting this board. we have crappy equity on this flop as we're actually looking for a gutshot and maybe a backdoor flush, maybe an ace (a K closes an open ended). i think we get raised a lot on this flop by sets, 2pair, straights and draws, and we could even have only 3 outs vs. KQ. it's a x/fold most of the times.

                          AKo hand it's pretty close. villain is repping very thin, mostly small pocket pairs or overs. with our 6 outs + backdoors + the chance we could have the best hand we might be good for calling, but again...probably too thin for my taste, i think we can fold. plus i'd cbet a little less on this flop, around half pot.
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 12:55 AM
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by baohoa
                          TT hand, yeah 3bet turn and get it in. as played i like the way you played the river.

                          AKs i don't like cbetting this board. we have crappy equity on this flop as we're actually looking for a gutshot and maybe a backdoor flush, maybe an ace (a K closes an open ended). i think we get raised a lot on this flop by sets, 2pair, straights and draws, and we could even have only 3 outs vs. KQ. it's a x/fold most of the times.

                          AKo hand it's pretty close. villain is repping very thin, mostly small pocket pairs or overs. with our 6 outs + backdoors + the chance we could have the best hand we might be good for calling, but again...probably too thin for my taste, i think we can fold. plus i'd cbet a little less on this flop, around half pot.
                          Thx. In the AKs hand I did c/f. The AKo hand is thin but some villain can do such weird things. So I ended up calling and he showed J4...

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Shippin Nickels
                          I'm trying something similar !
                          OK and GL! However we both must be careful not to spew to much!

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by Shippin Nickels
                          btw leffe tastes awsome
                          Yes, it does although my favourite beer is Budweiser (the Czech version).
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 04:24 AM
                          well mine is stella artois !
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 06:09 AM
                          LOL, i also love the Czech Bud, it's just awesome.

                          I wanted to ask how are you satisfied with micro grinding on Stars? Do you like the value you're getting back for you money? Aren't there sites that offer much more rakeback than stars? I mean SN, SNE is cool and all but for micros i mean.
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 06:31 AM
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by fairyquid
                          LOL, i also love the Czech Bud, it's just awesome.
                          Simply the best

                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by fairyquid
                          I wanted to ask how are you satisfied with micro grinding on Stars? Do you like the value you're getting back for you money? Aren't there sites that offer much more rakeback than stars? I mean SN, SNE is cool and all but for micros i mean.
                          As you can see I don't play too much (around 12k-16k hands a month). One of my goals was to clear the new player bonus ($600) which will be hopefully possible. I have also collected some other bonuses/rewards since I started in November last year there. Actually I don't really think PS offers us (micro players) the best rewards but I like the software and the fact there are a lot of players there. The latter is quite important for me as I only have a limited time to play so if I have time I want to have enough actions.

                          On the other hand I'm just a recreational player who has a (very?) well played job. I play (and I have started this thread) to get even better. I seriously think it should be everybody's first (and only) goal when somebody starts playing. The reason is simple: the big money is not at NL10, no matter what site do you play on .

                          Thx for reading and contributing!
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 06:37 AM
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by furkae
                          Thx. In the AKs hand I did c/f. The AKo hand is thin but some villain can do such weird things. So I ended up calling and he showed J4...
                          did we suck out? lol
                          Quote
                          05-14-2011 , 06:42 AM
                          Obviously we didn't, he won that pot . I have stoved that hand and I had (almost) enough equity to call so I'm fine with it.
                          Quote

                                
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