Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register

06-27-2011 , 05:35 PM
ever thought to make a database analysis from a coach?


i would look at steal/foldvsteal/ cold call by position/AF by position/ raise cbet/foldvcbet/squeeze



3bet is low from btn and blinds but you know it. maybe even MP.

it also seems that you're a lot more aggro oop, especially otr, while less aggro IP ( where you have more opportunities to bluff or valuebet thin). maybe should add some more cold calling IP as well and play postflop poker. not sure about 6 max though

honestly cbet looks quite ok. otf. turn and river are a bit too high though especially oop. sometimes you can take a check/call line and get value from bluffs. also IP you can apply more pressure rathernthan oop on opponents as they will have hard times to play vs. you

you can steal more imo...

you're winning a lot at SD...that could mean that you fold a little too much otr and maybe get bluffed off the pot.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 01:28 AM
Thx baohoa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
ever thought to make a database analysis from a coach?
Not really. It has the same problem as with the leakfinder video. I can hardly find an hour when nobody disturbs me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
3bet is low from btn and blinds but you know it. maybe even MP.
It's def. higher now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
it also seems that you're a lot more aggro oop, especially otr, while less aggro IP ( where you have more opportunities to bluff or valuebet thin). maybe should add some more cold calling IP as well and play postflop poker. not sure about 6 max though
That's interesting, haven't realized yet. Calling IP and playing postflop poker is the topic I'm concentrating on currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
honestly cbet looks quite ok. otf. turn and river are a bit too high though especially oop. sometimes you can take a check/call line and get value from bluffs. also IP you can apply more pressure rathernthan oop on opponents as they will have hard times to play vs. you
I think I should c-bet less OTT but more OTR (If I did c-bet OTT).

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
you can steal more imo...
I don't know. I get called a lot and I don't want to be in spots w/ even worse hands. I should first be better postflop, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by baohoa
you're winning a lot at SD...that could mean that you fold a little too much otr and maybe get bluffed off the pot.
In the last few weeks I've tried to call more but I'm not sure it's profitable. I'll check these spots more closely.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 04:18 AM
Blinds stats seem ok, as you dont lose much there.

Btn is way too tight. I am stealing something like 60%, which is too high, but it should be around 40-50. Same to the co, should be near the btn steal (depending on looseness of the actual btn of course).

It seems you barrel alot of turns. I like your flop cbet, especially at nl10, but your turn barrel seems a bit high.

3bet is way too low imo. Theres no reason to be this tight at this limit.
If they are folding too much: 3bet polarized.
If they are flattening 3bets (oop), 3bet depolarized.
That easy.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreatief
Blinds stats seem ok, as you dont lose much there.

Btn is way too tight. I am stealing something like 60%, which is too high, but it should be around 40-50. Same to the co, should be near the btn steal (depending on looseness of the actual btn of course).

It seems you barrel alot of turns. I like your flop cbet, especially at nl10, but your turn barrel seems a bit high.

3bet is way too low imo. Theres no reason to be this tight at this limit.
If they are folding too much: 3bet polarized.
If they are flattening 3bets (oop), 3bet depolarized.
That easy.
Thx Kreatief!

Currently I don't really want to steal more as I get called a lot and my postflop game isn't good enough which would result in more losses.

I have 3bet more lately but as some fish are calling a lot of 3bets 3betting with strong but not monster hands (TT, AJ) seems quite logical. I'll give it a try at least.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 07:52 AM
Just 3bet every hand you would cc IP!
Quote
06-28-2011 , 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreatief
Just 3bet every hand you would cc IP!
I don't think 3betting w/ 66 or 98s would be more profitable than calling against a usual loose station fish!?! I mean it has a lot of value postflop if I hit hard but I usually have no equity if I miss the flop. On the other hand I agree on 3betting w/ hands like KQ. What do you think?
Quote
06-28-2011 , 09:51 AM
yeah, I just wanted to point out the need to 3bet alot more
But there are alot of fishes that play so fit or fold in a 3bet pot. Against those its so profitable 3betting alot and just cbet.

But I am sure you get the point. If they call alot OOP, 3bet a (wide) merged range IP.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreatief
yeah, I just wanted to point out the need to 3bet alot more
But there are alot of fishes that play so fit or fold in a 3bet pot. Against those its so profitable 3betting alot and just cbet.

But I am sure you get the point. If they call alot OOP, 3bet a (wide) merged range IP.
Yeah, I've got it, thx. We'll see if I can solve this problem. On the other hand I still think the main problem is the low W$WSF value (s. here).

Last edited by furkae; 06-28-2011 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Added link to the W$WSF stat.
Quote
06-28-2011 , 04:16 PM
Made one big mistake (s. below) which resulted in a small winning day.



Villain was more or less unknown but he seemed nitty. One hand earlier he 3bet my open and I folded holding TT BvB. In this hand I thought his range consisted of AK mostly...

    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $17.49 (174.9 bb)
    Hero (BTN): $10.30 (103 bb)
    SB: $8.08 (80.8 bb)
    BB: $11.14 (111.4 bb)
    MP: $5.80 (58 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q Q
    MP raises to $0.30, CO folds, Hero raises to $1, SB raises to $8.08 and is all-in, 2 folds, Hero calls $7.08

    Flop: ($16.56) K J 3 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: ($16.56) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($16.56) K (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: $16.56 pot ($0.82 rake)
    Final Board: K J 3 9 K
    Hero showed Q Q and lost (-$8.08 net)
    SB showed A A and won $15.74 ($7.66 net)


    In the next hand villain was a maniac (overly aggro postflop). I normally fold to such a raise OTF but what do you think?

      Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      Hero (SB): $10.90 (109 bb)
      BB: $10 (100 bb)
      MP: $18.86 (188.6 bb)
      CO: $4 (40 bb)
      BTN: $17.40 (174 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
      MP calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, BB folds, MP calls $0.40

      Flop: ($1.10) 7 A K (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.78, MP raises to $1.56, Hero calls $0.78

      Turn: ($4.22) 5 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $1, Hero calls $1

      River: ($6.22) 3 (2 players)
      Hero checks, MP bets $2, Hero calls $2


      In the last hand villain was a fish (38/2 over 57 hands). He was a station postflop but had a high (6/12) river aggression frequency. What do you think of my line?

        Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

        SB: $3.79 (37.9 bb)
        Hero (BB): $10.29 (102.9 bb)
        BTN: $3.99 (39.9 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BB with K J
        BTN calls $0.10, SB completes, Hero checks

        Flop: ($0.30) 7 8 K (3 players)
        SB checks, Hero bets $0.26, BTN calls $0.26, SB folds

        Turn: ($0.82) 5 (2 players)
        Hero bets $0.58, BTN calls $0.58

        River: ($1.98) 7 (2 players)
        Hero bets $1.13, BTN raises to $2.26, Hero folds
        Quote
        06-28-2011 , 04:55 PM
        One problem I learned that I have and that has a big impact on the redline is to cbet the wrong boards.

        Example:

        I open raise from MP and BB flats. Board comes down T55 rb. I thought like: easy bet. Although he is not gonna fold right now, I can barrel alot of turns.
        Turn comes down J and I think like: Hmm, this hits his broadway range so good that he wont fold (straight draws, pair+draw, tp). But what turns do I want to barrel? No broadways, means no J, no Q, no K, no A. If a low card comes down, no pairs will fold. So I shut down on the turn and burnt alot of money by cbetting at all. redline goes down.


        Maybe you can check on this in your play. Maybe you have the same leak as I have.
        Quote
        06-28-2011 , 05:23 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Kreatief
        One problem I learned that I have and that has a big impact on the redline is to cbet the wrong boards.

        Example:

        I open raise from MP and BB flats. Board comes down T55 rb. I thought like: easy bet. Although he is not gonna fold right now, I can barrel alot of turns.
        Turn comes down J and I think like: Hmm, this hits his broadway range so good that he wont fold (straight draws, pair+draw, tp). But what turns do I want to barrel? No broadways, means no J, no Q, no K, no A. If a low card comes down, no pairs will fold. So I shut down on the turn and burnt alot of money by cbetting at all. redline goes down.


        Maybe you can check on this in your play. Maybe you have the same leak as I have.
        Although I agree with you I have to know which flops are good to c-bet on vs which villains I don't really like your example. Against a tighter player who has a lot of PP's in his range I'm happy to c-bet as he will fold a lot or call and fold to a turn c-bet (esp. if the turn card is T+). Against a fish I c-bet too as this flop rarely hits his random hand but I may give up OTT.

        I think I'll check my HEM database how I'm playing in these spots and if it's profitable.

        Anyway, thx Kreatief, I really appreciate your help!
        Quote
        06-28-2011 , 05:44 PM
        QQ hand looks good. (TT hand you mentioned probably not folding pre...were you oop?).

        AJ looks good

        KJ hand. pre i'm tempted to raise for value. it's really at the bottom of my range to do it oop though. on that board i don 't like to bet river if your plan is to fold when raised. i'd check/call or check/fold depending on our reads. i don't think we get value from anything here by betting.
        Quote
        06-29-2011 , 02:35 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by baohoa
        QQ hand looks good. (TT hand you mentioned probably not folding pre...were you oop?).
        He cold 4bet me so it must have been an insta fold.

        In the TT hand: I was the SB so I would have been OOP postflop. Easy fold I think as he was really nitty (although only over 20ish hands).

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by baohoa
        AJ looks good
        Yeah, perhaps. I thought he could have overplayed a weaker A. He had of course K7 (two pair OTF).

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by baohoa
        KJ hand. pre i'm tempted to raise for value. it's really at the bottom of my range to do it oop though. on that board i don 't like to bet river if your plan is to fold when raised. i'd check/call or check/fold depending on our reads. i don't think we get value from anything here by betting.
        Looking back on it the river bet was really way too thin and I should have just checked to see what he would do.

        Thx!
        Quote
        06-30-2011 , 04:05 PM
        Terrible end of a terrible month.



        In the first hand villain was a tight fish (17/2, 3% steal, F2CB: 45%). What is the best play OTT?

          Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

          BTN: $7.39 (73.9 bb)
          SB: $5.27 (52.7 bb)
          Hero (BB): $11.54 (115.4 bb)
          UTG: $10 (100 bb)
          MP: $5.42 (54.2 bb)
          CO: $10.36 (103.6 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
          3 folds, BTN raises to $0.20, SB folds, Hero raises to $1, BTN calls $0.80

          Flop: ($2.05) 8 8 4 (2 players)
          Hero bets $1.17, BTN calls $1.17

          Turn: ($4.39) J (2 players)
          Hero ???


          Villain in the second hand was an unknown fish (56/33 over only 19 hands). In the previous hand I 3bet him and he folded. I wouldn't like my flop c-bet against a better player but I could easily have the best hand. Turn is spewy I suppose.

            Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #9882952

            SB: $11.34 (113.4 bb)
            BB: $10 (100 bb)
            UTG: $9.11 (91.1 bb)
            Hero (MP): $11.06 (110.6 bb)
            CO: $10.30 (103 bb)
            BTN: $10 (100 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is MP with A K
            UTG raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1, 4 folds, UTG calls $0.70

            Flop: ($2.15) 6 8 T (2 players)
            UTG checks, Hero bets $1.23, UTG calls $1.23

            Turn: ($4.61) 8 (2 players)
            UTG checks, Hero bets $2.63, UTG calls $2.63

            River: ($9.87) K (2 players)
            UTG checks, Hero bets $5.63, UTG calls $4.25 and is all-in

            Results: $18.37 pot ($0.89 rake)
            Final Board: 6 8 T 8 K
            UTG showed 8 8 and won $17.48 ($8.37 net)
            Hero showed A K and lost (-$9.11 net)



            Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.


            In the third hand villain was another preflop overly aggro, postflop passive fish (44/30, 20% 3bet over 54 hands). OTF he won't bluff me out of the pot so I checked. What about the turn? Time to bet for value?

              Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

              SB: $11.75 (117.5 bb)
              BB: $10 (100 bb)
              UTG: $8 (80 bb)
              Hero (MP): $10 (100 bb)
              CO: $10 (100 bb)
              BTN: $13.49 (134.9 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is MP with Q Q
              UTG posts BB OOP, UTG checks, Hero raises to $0.40, CO folds, BTN raises to $1.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.90, BTN calls $1.70

              Flop: ($6.05) K T 8 (2 players)
              Hero checks, BTN checks

              Turn: ($6.05) 9 (2 players)
              Hero ???


              I have cashed out most of my BR being afraid of the same that happened to FT. I still have 40BI for NL10 which must be enough. Wish me GL for July, I'll need it!
              Quote
              06-30-2011 , 05:05 PM
              first QQ hand 3betting pre is def bad imho. his stats indicate KK+, AK+. by 3betting you don't achieve anything there. you don't get calls from worse and can't get better hands to fold. postflop nothing you can do but check/fold all streets as his range is really too strong. especially ott we don't beat anything. (it's not in his preflop raising range, but if it happens he has TT he's probably going to check back)

              AK hand looks good until the turn. flop bet looks ok for thin value, plus some backdoor equity with two overs, bdnfd and a longshot bdsd. when board pairs ott it's a check/fold most of the times imo.

              QQ hand looks ok if you checked/call the turn. i would rather give villain the chance to stab or call lighter otr and we can also pot control a little (wouldn't like to be called ott as i wouldn't know what to do otr). we have blockers for sdraws and vs. this villain i'm happy to get to the river without fearing a bluff.
              4bet could be larger oop here.


              I guess PS is a lot safer than FT. the fact that their players got their money back after BF speaks a lot. anyway, yeah, no need to keep too much money in there until you decide to move up.

              i really wish you gl for July, hope it gets better
              Quote
              07-01-2011 , 02:09 AM
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by baohoa
              first QQ hand 3betting pre is def bad imho. his stats indicate KK+, AK+. by 3betting you don't achieve anything there. you don't get calls from worse and can't get better hands to fold. postflop nothing you can do but check/fold all streets as his range is really too strong. especially ott we don't beat anything. (it's not in his preflop raising range, but if it happens he has TT he's probably going to check back)
              He min bet preflop. Do you really just flat him?!?

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by baohoa
              AK hand looks good until the turn. flop bet looks ok for thin value, plus some backdoor equity with two overs, bdnfd and a longshot bdsd. when board pairs ott it's a check/fold most of the times imo.
              I agree w/ you. I had position and I could check back.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by baohoa
              QQ hand looks ok if you checked/call the turn. i would rather give villain the chance to stab or call lighter otr and we can also pot control a little (wouldn't like to be called ott as i wouldn't know what to do otr). we have blockers for sdraws and vs. this villain i'm happy to get to the river without fearing a bluff.
              4bet could be larger oop here.
              As he was passive postflop I don't think he bluffs OTT but he might have called w/ worse. About the 4bet size: I normally 4bet around 25bb so it was bigger than usual. On the other hand he might have called an even bigger 4bet too.

              Quote:
              Originally Posted by baohoa
              I guess PS is a lot safer than FT. the fact that their players got their money back after BF speaks a lot. anyway, yeah, no need to keep too much money in there until you decide to move up.

              i really wish you gl for July, hope it gets better
              Thx!
              Quote
              07-01-2011 , 04:46 AM
              yeah i know what you mean with the QQ hand. how big is the sample size?
              the thing is that villain never steals, raises a really narrow range. now when we 3bet we want either worse hands to call (value) or better hands to fold (bluff). i don't think this can happen here and i really think flatting is best, we don't even need to isolate him. we do pretty bad vs. his original range, and of course vs. his continuation range.
              Quote
              07-01-2011 , 05:01 AM
              Sample size was around 100 hands (quite a lot for me). I think his preflop opening range is 88+, AQs+, AKo and he calls w/ his whole range. OTF he calls w/ his PP's but perhaps he folds his Ax hands.

              I could have flat called IP but I don't really like it OOP, esp. as he bet so small.
              Quote
              07-01-2011 , 05:01 PM
              Not a bad start for the month although it could have been way better if one of my big hands gets paid out.



              How do you play OTF in the next hand? CO (the OR) was a bit too aggro player (26/18 over 39 hands, 60% AF). BTN was a bit too tight reg (18/16). BB was a nit (12/8).

                Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #9885452

                CO: $7.28 (72.8 bb)
                BTN: $10 (100 bb)
                Hero (SB): $12.77 (127.7 bb)
                BB: $10 (100 bb)
                UTG: $12.65 (126.5 bb)
                MP: $14.06 (140.6 bb)

                Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
                2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

                Flop: ($1.20) 4 5 K (4 players)
                Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80, Hero ???



                Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
                Quote
                07-01-2011 , 05:20 PM
                Could squeeze pre, i do like squeezing here because CO will be stealing a lot and an 18/16's flatting range is never shoving/calling a squeeze here unless there terri-bad and call to setmine.

                flop is a bet meh with a bet and a call, c/r is marginal because CO is continuing 4-way so depending on how much he actually does c-bet his range should be pretty strong ehre which you don't have good equity against. don't hate a c/c, you have outs and can look to get to SD with a decent hand.
                Quote
                07-01-2011 , 05:29 PM
                Quote:
                Originally Posted by YouFaiil
                Could squeeze pre, i do like squeezing here because CO will be stealing a lot and an 18/16's flatting range is never shoving/calling a squeeze here unless there terri-bad and call to setmine.
                That's true but isn't my hand too strong to turn it into a bluff?

                Quote:
                Originally Posted by YouFaiil
                flop is a bet meh with a bet and a call, c/r is marginal because CO is continuing 4-way so depending on how much he actually does c-bet his range should be pretty strong ehre which you don't have good equity against. don't hate a c/c, you have outs and can look to get to SD with a decent hand.
                My plan was to x/r but the BTN call was quite strong. This is how it got on. Can we x/c again OTT?

                  Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
                  Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

                  CO: $7.28 (72.8 bb)
                  BTN: $10 (100 bb)
                  Hero (SB): $12.77 (127.7 bb)
                  BB: $10 (100 bb)
                  UTG: $12.65 (126.5 bb)
                  MP: $14.06 (140.6 bb)

                  Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
                  2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

                  Flop: ($1.20) 4 5 K (4 players)
                  Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets $0.80, BTN calls $0.80, Hero calls $0.80, BB folds

                  Turn: ($3.60) 4 (3 players)
                  Hero checks, CO bets $1.10, BTN calls $1.10, Hero ???
                  Quote
                  07-01-2011 , 06:36 PM
                  depends, you'll be multi-way and OOP for the rest of the hand if you flat. Squeeze and you'll be OOP with the initiative and a strong hand and of course you win money when they fold pre as well as getting the image of 3betting a lot. A negative to squeezing would be your risking xbb's and have to fold to a shove and if someone flats, c-betting a big pot will suck.

                  I think c/c flop and turn is fine, it's a passive line but i would want to be cautious in that kind of situation.

                  CO's bet size on the turn is very wtf, not sure what to read into that :/
                  Quote
                  07-01-2011 , 07:14 PM
                  Do you think btn setmines with 73bb effective stacks? What's his 3-betting tendencies? A squeeze will probably be profitable pre, but I don't like to squeeze aggressive midstackers since they often shove over the squeeze. KQs isn't good enough to get it in pre without crazy battling.

                  I like checkraising flop here but a call isn't bad either. You need to have a plan for turn and river if you are going to call. I'd prefer both checkraising and donking before a call though.

                  Turn is a good card for pfr since there are now less set combos and no one ever have quads basically. Generally I would assign a tight btns range to more hands that play well with a small stack to pot ratio, for instance KT-KQ than 55-66, 56. Maybe AT-AJs as well with flushdraw.

                  His betsize looks fishy though. Based on the info he isn't a particularly good player so it's not easy to say if he is betting small with nuts, air och draw. I'd call turn and re-evaluate river but basically checkcalling most rivers unless I get a good reason not to do so.
                  Quote
                  07-02-2011 , 01:29 AM
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by YouFaiil
                  I think c/c flop and turn is fine, it's a passive line but i would want to be cautious in that kind of situation.

                  CO's bet size on the turn is very wtf, not sure what to read into that :/
                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by 2Lazy2Work
                  His betsize looks fishy though. Based on the info he isn't a particularly good player so it's not easy to say if he is betting small with nuts, air och draw. I'd call turn and re-evaluate river but basically checkcalling most rivers unless I get a good reason not to do so.
                  I think both of you are right in x/c'ing turn b/c of the small turn bet size. Actually I folded and river went check/check. Both of them had KJ...

                  Thx for the answers guys!
                  Quote
                  07-02-2011 , 04:48 AM
                  KQs hand. both flatting or squeezing are good imo. depends on your postflop play here. KQs works really well mw even oop, i lean more towards flatting. you keep their range wider and don't bloat the pot oop with a hand that works well with higher SPR. i would prefer to squeeze with hands like A9o here.
                  if HU you could 3bet or value sometimes.
                  otf i would x/raise, you're doing really well vs. anything that is not a set, do really well even vs. the nfd or tptk. your hand is a monster hand here. btn would probably raise a set. plus there's dead money in the pot. and you're oop which make it more difficult to draw and get paid.
                  as played flatting turn looks ok
                  Quote

                        
                  m