Just me, but If I mostly play 1-2 1-3, I don't want to play hands like this too often against a skilled LAG who reg sits at 5-10 and higher. Just a bit over my head, decent hand to watch however. Good post!

Where I play these things happen fairly often because there is always a wait for the good higher games. I understand thinking that someone who plays higher than you is better than you, but I will never understand why people think better players are always bluffing. I watch people stack off all the time in these spots only to have the Higher Player flip over their set or two pair. The reason they can play higher than you is because they play correctly, and they probably think you are a fish, and I have always been told not to bluff a fish...

Just because she plays higher doesn't necessarily mean she is good. Most of the players at the higher levels are garbage too, FWIW. I just mention that because there are often misconceptions by lower stake players that because a player is playing a high game every day that means that player is good, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Is it a leak and if so how much to call turn call like every river but like a 7. She just has so much air in her range that folds to the turn shove like 8x 3x tx that she turned into a bluff on the turn. We want the extra money from that air.

I agree 100%. Some donkeys just have more money than 1/2 players--so they play 5/10 or whatever. It doesn't correlate to skill at all.

I agree but nobody ever put the Villain on a range of hands, they just weirdly claimed the Jack was a horrible card. If I give the Villain some reasonable range of hands top 10%, top 20% etc., the jack is NOT a bad card.

cds0699 really stated everything perfectly, with knowing Villains is an intelligent LAG player that is a horrible turn card to double barrel.... check turn/ call a majority of rivers bet size dependent

EPILOG:

Yes, The raison d'etre of this thread is:

People don't multitask well:

When they have a big hand most people don't order drinks from the waitress or chatter with the floor man about getting a position on a bigger table. That's why you order a drink of the waitress or yell at the floor man when you turn the nuts in a huge pot.

Here it was more important for her get get into a bigger game than to maximize against me in the 2/5 game.

She may be good enough to fake it but I decided she was *NOT* acting when she complained, "How can I be 11th on the 5/10 list!"

derick

I think you can get the equivalent of three streets of value by checking back the turn and raising the river if she bets. She is a good enough player to know that you are a LSNL player so you are super polarized by raising a blank river. Therefore all of her value hands short of straights turn into bluff catchers. She might bet/fold with two pair or maybe bet/call with a jack knowing that most LSNL players have air or a monster in this spot and there's no reason to shove for value with a two pair type hand.

She could cr river but we could also prevent that by making a big bet like $150. She likely isn't check raising in this spot cuz an overbet on the river means the same thing as above. The only time she's check raising a worse hand is if she's bluffing.

Awesome . . . three consecutive posts, each from 2012, 2013 and 2014.

And I thought my internet was laggy.

with one card to come i would probably ship here

she is above these stakes and wont think twice about losing 500 at a small game

a plethora of draws and even air in her range. your hand is also underreped and as people have said: is begging to be bluffed off

sucks whe she has a set or straight or top two but she has a ton of bluffs and mabe even weak hands turned into bluffs

i ship, nh

I agree that she's not afraid of losing $500 but if she's a pro it doesn't matter how much money the bet is, it is about making the correct play. Any pro at any level should be comfortable to make any move at any time or should move down in stakes.

She's really not putting that much pressure on QQ here because there isn't a river bomb potentially coming. This still is a difficult decision but if the stacks were deeper she is putting exponentially more pressure on QQ.

There's $127 in the pot. If she's cr air here she needs is to fold a little over 60% of the time. Though she could float the flop and cr the turn with air it is much more likely that she has a legit hand either with pair and straight draw possibilities or two pair and sets. I think hero found the bottom of her range in this spot and maybe made a good live read.

The key to beating a good LAG is denying them information about your hand. If she accurately reads you, but you are in the dark about her hand she has the advantage.

The OP did a good job doing this until the turn ship. When OP ships it allows villain to play perfectly by folding air/semibluffs and calling with 2 pr+. In fact, that is when LAG called his exact hand (partly fishing for info) and correctly folded. I would rather OP call turn and snap off Villain's river bluff. The river will likely get even more scary, but a call is still correct as the LAG will use this scare card when hero's hand is so underrepped.

Sure there will be times when LAG catches river card to win, but I believe this is the optimal line if villain is truly a good LAG.

I remember reading this as a lurker... great thread, deserved to get bumped.

Can someone clarify this statement for me? You don't order drinks when you have a big hand but you do when you turn the nuts? I am confused.

Lulz... Wp.

Grunch? If that means i have not read past the OP. lol


Very easy shipit.

Your bet sizes induce pair+draw CR here all day.
V betsizing suggests FE rather than looking for a call
V expects you will barrel without much thought very thinly

I expect you to be good on turn here maybe 80-90% of time.

Yawn and stuff it in.


Geeez I just saw how many replies there are here. When did this thread start, holy cow.

Are you sure you grunched? Because you had a different take on this hand on post 23 prior to OP revealing he jammed over villians turn raise and got a fold....

Things that make you go HMMM........

Did you get her number by chance?

Hmm...

Her value range is sets, JTs, Q9s, 97s (18 combos). Being that she's a good LAG and you're deep, she can also have a wide number of decent draws in this spot (A2-A9dd, AQo, KQs, K9s, T9s, 98/87dd). Unfortunately her bluff range is blocked by your QQ and reduced to 22 combos in the most optimistic scenario. Which is prpblematic because you need ~45% equity as she's committing to ship any river with her sizing, and all her bluffs have a minimum 11 outs vs you (whereas if you're behind you're either drawing 4 outs to a chop, or have 6-12 outs). I haven't stoved it, but it looks like a fold, mostly because half the deck makes you hate life OTR.

The only other option is a ship expecting to basically fold out her draws.

Basically it's a ship if 1) she has little/no value range with this sizing, or 2) she folds every single draw, and has every single strong draw possible. Otherwise it's a fold. It's a close call.

The only thing I can add to this thread is there is one point where OP asks how she knew he had QQ.

She doesn't know, obviously it's a guess, but why QQ? Maybe bc she is holding AK and just picked the best pair down from the two cards she was holding?

Many people who guess hands take into account not only your action, but their holdings. Just a thought.

well I would assume most people improve their poker game over the course of 4 years

this

& this^