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Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game.

07-31-2010 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I like the above questions better than what I did.

Something lucky happens to me.

The PA announces a list of names for a new 5/10 table.
She calls out the the floor, "How could I be eleventh on the 5/10 list?"

The floorman replies with some obsequious gibberish.

I can't think of anything good to say. I should memorize some good lines, but I decide to try conversation.

My brain pumps out something idiotic.

I say, "How much do you have?"

This is totally ******ed. I know exactly how much she has. She knows I know.

She lifts her arms showing her stack.

Then she smiles and she remarks, "... Maybe we should have gotten it all in preflop."

What do you do with this information?


What's your read now?
Not sure there's a read to be had. If she knows you know her stack and you've asked, it looks pretty obvious you're uncomfortable with the situation in the hand. It probably makes her completely confident her hand is good there and then.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
07-31-2010 , 08:14 PM
The read is she wants you to think that she was a 1pr hand.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-01-2010 , 06:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog
The read is she wants you to think that she was a 1pr hand.
So, Does she have air or 2 pair or a monster draw or ...
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-01-2010 , 07:31 AM
Her range has you beat.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-02-2010 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
Live 2/5.

Villain is waiting for a spot in the bigger $5/10NL game.
I've seen villain playing 10/20NL and bigger. All the dealers and floor know the villain by name.
Villain is a good skilled LAG smart very aggressive player.

I've played briefly with the villain before.

I've been playing TAG. The table is loose passive. Lots of limping preflop and very bad postflop play. The villain has seen me take down a couple of $100 pots without a showdown. The villain has been pushing the table around has quickly (I assume outplayed the table to) put her initial $500 up to $730.

Red QQ in MP ($900),

1 limper.

I raise to $30, (this is the standard raise at this table)

Good player ($730) in BB calls, limper folds.

Flop Td 8c 3s

Checked to me.

I bet $30, Good player flat calls.

Turn Jd (Td 8c 3s),

Checked to me.
I bet $60.

Good player check raises $210 with $460 behind. (I cover).

What do you do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I'm not saying the (standard) $50 flop bet/turn check line is bad. I considered it. But I chose to bet half pot to avoid defining my hand on purpose. BTW, I use the bet the flop check the turn line a lot.


I think she reads hands really well and I didn't want to give her more information. In return it makes reading her hand harder to play. But I expect her to make her hand hard to read anyways — That's what good players do ☺
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I can't for the life of me put her on a range at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I tank and watch her...

Nothing.

At this point I don't know what to do.

The only pairs I'm beating are 99 (bobtail straight draw) and 77 (yeah right, Gutshot).

I tank... I have no idea what her range is.
Obviously her bet has huge leverage because of the money behind.

I tank some more, I have no idea about her range.

I decide that I'm doomed here and it can't hurt to engage her in conversation.

Would you start talking to her?
Knowing there is a good chance she might be better at gaining information than you, or do you shut up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I like the above questions better than what I did.

Something lucky happens to me.

The PA announces a list of names for a new 5/10 table.
She calls out the the floor, "How could I be eleventh on the 5/10 list?"

The floorman replies with some obsequious gibberish.

I can't think of anything good to say. I should memorize some good lines, but I decide to try conversation.

My brain pumps out something idiotic.

I say, "How much do you have?"

This is totally ******ed. I know exactly how much she has. She knows I know.

She lifts her arms showing her stack.

Then she smiles and she remarks, "... Maybe we should have gotten it all in preflop."

What do you do with this information?


What's your read now?
I place 4 black chips on 3 stacks of 20 red chips... , "All in"

After 2 seconds...

She says, "I know my hand is better than yours"

Pause of 5 seconds.

"Queens are no good"

How the heck did she read me for queens?
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-02-2010 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I place 4 black chips on 3 stacks of 20 red chips... , "All in"

After 2 seconds...

She says, "I know my hand is better than yours"

Pause of 5 seconds.

"Queens are no good"

How the heck did she read me for queens?
Damn I love that b*tch
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I place 4 black chips on 3 stacks of 20 red chips... , "All in"

After 2 seconds...

She says, "I know my hand is better than yours"

Pause of 5 seconds.

"Queens are no good"

How the heck did she read me for queens?
You are being probed big time. At this stage I would neither be looking at her nor responding to her...just stare at a blank spot on the felt and breathe normally.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 05:59 AM
Bet bigger on the flop & turn. You lose sooo much value by betting under half pot. Betting bigger for value will allow you to bluff bigger and more effectively.

Checking turn is terrible - if your turn bet doesn't get called by worse it means you're playing way too passive. You should be double barreling a ton on this turn. You'll have a ton of hands in your range w/10+ outs vs top pair and you should be betting them very often. Thus, you should also be betting aggressively with queens.

I'd be inclined to call her turn c/r. If she's as good as you say, she'll be c/r a fairly balanced range I'd rahter have queens than aces in this spot b/c queens have the advantage of of having 6 outs vs sets and 12 outs vs two pairs. Shoving is terrible. You'll rarely get called by worse or fold better. My plan is to river a Q or 9 and cry if she shoves a blank river.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cds0699
I'd bet $50 on the flop, and check back the turn, and prob call down some good safe rivers, personally.

When you check back the turn, this keeps her 1 pair hands and bluffs/air in the pot, and allows you to control the pot overall because you're in position. She might bet some of those hands on the river because you checked back the turn and you can call down if the river is a safe card in relation to the board texture.

Remember, 2 streets of value is good, and you should try to play good lags straight up and take away their opportunity to put you in a tough spot, which they'll often do because they're good.

As played, I'm folding here on the turn.... because she's jamming the rest of her stack on the river, and I wouldn't call a shove from her on the river, so thats why I just give it up on the turn.
agree with every word
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 07:34 AM
If she is going to c/r bluff on some turns I kinda prefer betting the turn.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 08:02 AM
Re: not betting the river to prevent a CRAI

(% you'll be called by a hand that you beat) * pot+riverbet + (% she'll fold) * pot - (% you'll be called by a hand that beats you) * riverbet - (% time you get CRAI and have to fold) * riverbet = EV of valuebetting river

Figure out what percentage of the time you think each will happen, and you'll know if it's better to check behind.

Going with $50 flop bet that's called, c/c turn, and a bet of 100 into 167 on the river.

5% of the time you bet, she'll call with a hand you beat. (+13.35)
5% of the time you bet, she'll call with a hand that beats you. (-5)
20% of the time she'll fold (+33.4)
70% of the time she'll CRAI (-70)

Given those percentages, EV of valuebetting $100 on the river is $-28.25
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 08:04 AM
yeah and you dont want to be just picked up turn draw air and nuttish hands in your turn betting range - otherwise she will be able to c/r turn with impunity.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 08:11 AM
Are you talking about the 48 yr old chubby short black haired woman?

If it is I forget her name, but she's horrible. I played her multiple times on 10/20 at Fallsview. Her range is so big and shes a station galore. I'd make it 50 pre flop and shove flop.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 08:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by [x] cookiesniper
Are you talking about the 48 yr old chubby short black haired woman?

If it is I forget her name, but she's horrible. I played her multiple times on 10/20 at Fallsview. Her range is so big and shes a station galore. I'd make it 50 pre flop and shove flop.
I think he's talking about a young Asian girl (20's maybe early 30's) who often wears a hat like Gilligan and giggles a lot.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 10:37 AM
She's a blonde.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough
I think he's talking about a young Asian girl (20's maybe early 30's) who often wears a hat like Gilligan and giggles a lot.
Pic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
She's a blonde.
Pic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [x] cookiesniper
Are you talking about the 48 yr old chubby short black haired woman?

If it is I forget her name, but she's horrible. I played her multiple times on 10/20 at Fallsview. Her range is so big and shes a station galore. I'd make it 50 pre flop and shove flop.
Do Not Want!
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 04:38 PM
So, what happened next?
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-03-2010 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mind Reader
So, what happened next?
+1
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
I place 4 black chips on 3 stacks of 20 red chips... , "All in"

After 2 seconds...

She says, "I know my hand is better than yours"

Pause of 5 seconds.

"Queens are no good"

How the heck did she read me for queens?
When she says, "Queens are no good" I nearly **** my pants.

She says in an exasperated voice, "I know what you have too!" and she folds.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:59 AM
Nice hand.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derick
When she says, "Queens are no good" I nearly **** my pants.

She says in an exasperated voice, "I know what you have too!" and she folds.
Guess queens were good then. I think she was trying to get a reaction out of you to see if her read was right. Hopefully you insta mucked?
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 12:44 PM
I feel like people here are ignoring the fact that a good LAG, especially one who has moved down a level or two, is going to attack this terrible betsizing with any piece of the flop, and often times air on a board with this texture. She knows her perceived range can crush yours and is betting you either A. know it too, or more easily B. will just get away cheaply. Flatting to me, isn't much of an option because there's almost nothing you ever want to see on the river with your range and she is most likely going to ship no matter what. Ship or fold, live with results.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 01:00 PM
Eh, poster above said it first but yeah, your betsizing makes you look ridic weak and makes this hand nigh impossible to play, meaning your hand is under repped, but it's really not a good board for you..
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suitedbut
Eh, poster above said it first but yeah, your betsizing makes you look ridic weak and makes this hand nigh impossible to play, meaning your hand is under repped, but it's really not a good board for you..
IMO the title of the thread is a good one and the mistake was a tactical one of trying to outplay a superior player post-flop by taking a hand that has pre-flop strength and under reping it postflop. A straightforward line of PFR followed by 3/4 pot sized bet would have better defined the hands and I doubt a good player is trying to bluff in that spot at low stakes where they know the majority of players are not folding overpairs. I either bet bet bet or c/c the turn. If she still calls the flop and raises the turn, I think I am beat.
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote
08-04-2010 , 11:19 PM
Humm maybe I have a leak in my game.

Same sort of thing happened again.
Against and even better player.

2/5 Live ... a few days later.

BB Villain is a very very good player. Recently final tabled in the WSOP doubling through Phil Helmuth, sponsored Stars player. She's playing LAG and running over the table.

I've never seen her play as low as 2/5 before.
I'm here because there are some awful fish at the table.

Solid player ($1200) makes it $25 in the CO.

I flat call the $25. AKo in SB ($647).

BB Villain ($1100) makes it $125.

Solid player folds.

What do you do here?
???
Shark in your small pond. Playing a skilled LAG who's waiting for a bigger game. Quote

      
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