And gets called by what?
Gets folds from what?

You want to check fold with a SPR of .5?

That doesn't answer the question.

H didn't leave himself a lot of options. I guess check/call keeps more bluffs in V range but if V is competent as stated he's not going to have many bluffs offering H 3:1.

Due to odds a jam could get called by 8s and by 77, maybe AK. V isn't folding any T or JJ+

This. Called by red JJ-AA. Admittedly it's a crap spot but you can't check/fold here with the 9s in our hand with this little behind.

How to we leave ourselves with many options? I guess I could have raise more pre, bet smaller otf? Can we check this flop?

Hand is fine, flop is 100% a Cbet to fold out V's equity/get value from draws.

As nutty as it sounds I'd encourage the table somehow to take the straddle off. This **** is what happens when the effective stacks are 50bb. That said, I have no clue how to go about broaching it without looking like a nit.

[x] raise more pre

Flop bet is too big, folds out hands we want to call and commits you on turn

I thought about going larger. This was probably the biggest mistake if I'm going to raise. Add that I'd already opened to $36 in a straddled pot and gotten called three ways and going too multiway was a definite worry.

I just hate pumping it to like $40 pf with what's essentially a middle pair. There's also no guarantee that and fewer would call anyway.

Though a plausible idea, this will never happen.

There is another route to go that hasn't been approached yet. And that's just limping along. The fact that my villains called a $25 pf bet does not mean any would raise that large themselves or raise at all. A regular setmine could play decent in this situation.

99 is too strong imo to limp behind.

I dunno it's just a weird hand that worked itself to a point where all of the available options seemed bad on the turn.

Yeah these are funny spots. I think without the 9s we can safely check/fold turn.

What is villain's frequency for 3 betting JJ+? Is he capable and sophisticated enough to flat pre with a big pair and deciding to call down on most runouts with the SPR so low?

yeah i typed and deleted “or limp behind” in my post haha, seems like a pretty solid second choice. i’d always raise if sitting deep with excellent implied odds

+1 our competent thinking villain is playing 37 straddles. Either rip it in on the turn or provide more reads on why we shouldn't. Unclear why we should be unhappy about the spot.

Think we're just going to leave ourselves in too many **** spots opening 99 from MP at a loose table, imo.

And flop is that **** spot, imo. Got in 7% of our stack preflop and now we're playing for stacks. Did someone outflop us? Was someone ahead the whole way (which is *extremely* easy, imo)? And no room to figure things out. Anyhoo, I probably PSB to commit to the turn.

Trying to think of a hand we beat on the turn that a competent player shows up with this at this point. 76, really? A8, really?

Ha, best idea might literally be to shove... as a bluff against JJ.

GcluelessNLnoobG

T on turn seems good for us here. TT was one of the most likely better hands for V to just flat with pre, and now it's much less likely. It's possible thinking V flats with some bigger hands to keep fish in, but still have to somewhat discount QQ+ with no 3bet. V could definitely have an 8 here, 77, 66, 76.
I think you're slightly ahead of V's range on turn (even with completed flush), but awkward spot since it seems quite bad for your equity if turn goes check, check, but if you bet you're mostly getting called by better.
I think I close my eyes and shove here. You could get called by some 14-outters with As and 2 overs. Worse to let them in for free than to miss value from sometimes getting shoved on by 77 when you check.
Also, you've got 9s as escape hatch against TT or JJ w no spade.

So just a follow up to this for those who are interested.

Played a noon - 9:30pm shift on Friday. Room was packed (all 5 tables going fairly early), and very run-of-the-mill. I started at a horrible table but was able to move to a good table after a couple of hours. Obviously only a 9.5 hour sample size, but results:

- at most times after the first couple of hours there were 4 to 5 people sitting on 200bb+ stacks (and only one competent player ever had a big stack, the other big stacks I would label as very easy money)
- the table I played the majority of the time at I considered a very good table, full of some of the best known loose terrible players, and one totally clueless guy I hadn't seen before (responsible for 3 of the biggest hands at the table I describe below); I'd be printing money if I only played at this table
- I saw flopped sets tabled 3 times in the 9.5 hours
- set1: QQ shortstack of $60 raises, goes 4ways to the flop, flops Qxxcc and shoves over a donk for the win
- set2: I limp/reraise AA vs KK, we get it in on K high flop with 1.5 SPR
- set3: JJ raises, 5ways to J62cc, falls behind on ccc turn to nut flush, gets there on river and gets in small remaining $50
- there was one other flopped set that got shown, but that was 66 getting it all-in preflop HU (not really a setmining payoff spot)
- saw 100bb ($300) stacks go in exactly once; two guys turned the chopping nuts
- saw 80bb ($240) stacks go in; raised multiway pot, nut flush over flush
- saw 80bb ($240) stacks go in; 6way raised pot ($75), 97 vs 87 get it in on 776 flop
- one player was then responsible for the next 3 biggest hands, all very lol as obviously he looks clueless
- H1 gets in 90bb ($270): 3way 3bet pot ($100), he's in there with KJss, face up passive lady 3better with obviously KK open jams $240 into $100 on 532ss, he calls
- H2 gets in 90bb ($270): very next hand this guy steamingly rebuys, gets in 4way raised pot with AQo, A86dd flop, he cbets, the passive lady from previous hand raises with 86, 97dd check/shoves $200, he then lol steam shoves
- H3 get in 70bb ($240): half an hour later, he gets in multiway raised pot with AK, sees K65ss flop, passive K6 donks, he raises, 74 flats, K6 shoves, he has another super easy fold but calls

As I say, obviously lol sample size, but this is the way my game plays. I also think it is a good game. But I also don't see it that different of the game from what I've seen of other 1/3 NL HHs posted in this forum. Lotta multiway raised pots, and mostly shown the nuts when big money goes in (where really big money of 100bb+ goes in very rarely). The only thing I'm a little wary of is that there might be some posting bias.

But, then again, if you guys are having 200bbs thrown around every 15 minutes, or sets are showing down and claiming huge pots all the time, then yeah, I guess my game does play different. But this isn't what I'm seeing in the posted 1/3 NL HHs.

Gplaysinagoodgame,andmostlikelyatypicalgame,imoG

I've had ~195bb in the pot (AA vs KK pre) and ~350bb in the pot (turned set over flopped set) and another ~185bb pot with an AI (rivered boat vs turned flush) in the scope of 30 minutes. This is 1/3.

Obviously lol sample size as well. The only one who has a decent sample size here is probably the casino.

Some days you just won't see pots bigger than 100bb EVER, because your table is just poor people gambools who buy in for $100-150, so everyone is short stacked.

All of those hands look relatively "coolerish" to me.

(i.e. not sure what is a good indication of how wild your game)

GcluelessNLnoobG

So you're now with us on opening up your double barrel frequency, either pushing your stack on a bluff and/or making leveraged turn bets threatening river shoves?

I've thought about that.

And, frankly, I don't think it's going to work. In a 5+ way pot (which even most raised pots are), there's simply too good a chance that one person has made a hand they aren't willing to fold (also keeping in mind that half the table is still playing short and more than willing to get in their shortstack with lol holdings, as some of these < 100bb HHs show). Yeah, I believe you'll end up stealing a lotta pots the times no one does make a hand. But the times you barrel into the nuts / barrel into a shortstack who feels committed with his lol holding just ain't going to make up for that.

As I say, in the 9.5 hours, only *3* flopped sets were tabled. All you're going to do is end up barrelling into the other sets that weren't tabled.

GimoG

2/5/10 I'm in the UTG straddle and only have 850.

Two limps and then bad loose rec player raises to 45, good pro in cut off isos to 120. (he isn't a LAG but his range is relatively wide here given it was the bad loose rec who raises)

Two unknown Asians (seem reccy), on button and bb both call the 120. (they are 1100 ish eff with pro).

I have AKss

Can we do anything other than cram?

Nope

^ This.