FWIW, I didn't realize we just made a boat, so obviously not ~drawingdead against nearly as many hands. Still, I'm using the same reasoning as G to check back here against most opponents.

GcluelessboardreadingnoobG

@irtm; I raise preflop - AP I'm just going to bet three streets here & hope V levels himself with QQ/JJ/A-high etc.

I'm raising this all day when I've been at the table more than 20 hands and I know what the vibe is.

Even with hours against some of these people it helps to know how they are doing that day imo.
Stuck = calling more
Up = protecting their stack
Rando might be a maniac and people are trapping

But yes, I generally agree with respect to preflop

fair enough; the one benefit of having limp/called here is we shouldn't have too many Kx combos in our range - which is more of a reason to bet 3 streets imo

I dont think you mis-ranged him badly, and its kind of a setup with QQ with these dynamics.

That being said, as i thouched upon in my other post, in my opinion its a mistake (potenially a big one if the decision point here is for even deeper stacks) to give unknowns villains too wide of a range in a spot like this with no further proof/reads on what they are capable of 4 bet shipping pre.

Just because we on 2+2 or other skilled players who pays attention to table dynamics and whats happenning at the table- and that we would adjust in a certain way (widening our 4 bet range if we get 3 bet alot for example), doesent mean that your typical 1/3 villain will do the same thing.

Like, many 1/3 villains simply arent capable of showing up with hands like 99-1010 or AJ/AQ here, even if they have been hammered on alot, and even if they are on semitilt. They simply just wait it out until they manage to pick up a premium before they take a stand.

Tough spot. Would villian shove here w/ AA, KK or would villian flat call planning the shove the flop? If the latter then you can discount AA,KK to a certain extent which would push it into a call. AA,KK may not shove here.

$1/$3 nlhe

Sunday night. New to table. V is 30ish WG. Hasn't gotten out of line in the short time I have been there.

Hero has two red queens. One limper. I make it $15. V calls from SB. Limper calls.

Pot $45
Flop Jc 9s 4s. Checks to me. I bet $25. Sh calls. Limper folds.

Pot $88 after rake
Turn 6c. V leads for $45. I elect to call.

Pot $178. River 2d. He leads for $50. H calls.

Would you have raised turn or raised river?


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Stack sizes make a difference. If we feel we're committed, then bet flop bigger / raise (or shove) turn to commit. If we don't feel committed, then never thinking of raising.

Against a guy who doesn't get out-of-line the call flop / donk turn line is typically pretty strong, and I'd at least consider folding here.

Once we get to the river I'm never folding this card to this betsize.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Yeah, I like a bigger flop bet on this wet board, but I play turn and river the same.

$3 is missing from the pot as written. How much effective with V?

Pre is good.
Flop can be bigger for value.

Call turn.
I might click it back on the river depending on stack sizes, but probably just calling.

Raise river to 125. Fold to a 3!

This was pretty much my thought. It was only a half hour, though, so I can't put too much stock in my read. His size on the river was either 'I know you are paying me off for this size' or 'I don't want to put more than this amount in with my hand.'


How much bigger do you like?

About $275. And, yeah, a couple of bucks short on pot. Not much of significance, though. Never again on my phone. LOL.

What do you size flop?

Not sure we'd have enough behind to fold. Stacks were about $275 and at $15, $25, $45, $125, we leave about $65 behind.

I prob go $35 or 40 OTF.

This stack size to two callers (and even one) is just so awkward regarding SPR, so much so that lately I've even been reconsidering whether sitting with a $300 max BI stack (which I always do) is actually optimum (as opposed to a $200 stack where this spot is trivial). I would actually attempt to avoid this by raising much bigger preflop, or if I'm in EP enough at an aggro table by overlimping/reraising.

In this case the SPR is actually less than 6. With a board this drawy, you could actually argue for an overbet on the flop to setup a turn shove, because any big bets on flop or turn are going to leave a trivial lol amount for the river anyways.

ETA: For example, a $40 bet on the flop and a 3/4 PSB of $95 on the turn HU leaves us with a lol 40% PSB left for the river of $125 (just barely more than our turn bet), are we happy with that?

GreconsideringeverythingIthinkIknewG

l/rr pre.

flop is fine, now check. we're not getting value from worse imo.

Someone is raising worse from the blinds?

Until we get better reads on this guy suggesting otherwise, I think this would be overplaying, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

if we think v is raising light from the bb, why would we want to re-raise pre?

we can get better to fold (i.e. AT-AQ, 88-TT) and we'll have position if they decide to call.

I probably project too much of my own style onto my opponents, but I'm not convinced we're up against hands like this very much in the blinds after multiple limpers (until reads tell me otherwise).

GimoG

could be. based on the villain's description (younger, comfortable at the table, riffling chips, hoodie), i'm assuming he might have a clue and could raise wider here vs a field of limpers.

1/3 late Saturday night/Sunday morning @ casino

V is late 20s/early 30s Indian guy, dressed nicely. Seems to know what he's doing, he's in MP, has table covered at like 1600 (but all came from 1 hand when he bet/3 flopped 10 high flush vs a bad players 2P). A few hands earlier, I 3! His open, he quickly 4! And I mucked AQo. He's only seen me cold 4! Jam another hand where I had AK for 420ish (I've been fairly card dead at a very good table).

OTTH

V opens to 20 over 1 limp.
H (LP, 500) looks down at QQ and I raise to 70 (misclicked, meant 60 but brain farted to 70)
Folds around, he calls pretty quickly

---With no 4! And a quick call, I feel I'm ahead nearly 100%

Flop ($140): T82ccc
Both check

--- I'm not sure I should bet here, i think I'm only getting value from big clubs, which is a small part of his range. Not sure he has much Tx that he's thrilled to peel with here

Turn ($140): Qc
He bets 100 basically before the Q hits the board
I call

--- with the speed at which be bet, I feel like that removes flopped flushes and Ac because they would take a few seconds to think.
--- I do think the lack of cbet narrows my range to less club draws, so range vs range, he has more possible flushes

River ($340): 3h
He bets 175, again, extremely quickly.

I'm getting 3:1, so I only need to be good 25% of the time.

Anyone calling this?

There's got to be a mistake in the HH because don't we have the 3rd nuts only losing to 33 and Jc9c?

If somehow this is right then lol jam.

Flop wasn't T83, it must have been T84 or T82, we have top set on a 4 flush board, no FH possible. I know the river was a 3, so the flop is wrong

Sorry about the confusiom

Board as described is Tc 8c 3c, Qc, 3h. We have a full house.

Ok. In that case it's probably a sigh fold.

He might not have a good club, but he almost always has some club.