Strike one, strike two, strike three, strike four. You're out of thread.

Just wondering if im the only one that thinks the simpson have been **** for the past few years? They've gone from crazy kid style but relates to adults funny to witty shady popculture hipster "funny".

I really want to know what happened with that show, i almost enjoy Walking Dead more than the simpsons

Well you're certainly going to catch some flack for a post like that but I'm willing to hear you out. First, can you clarify your opinions by way of a comparison? What would be an example of show that DID have "great characters, acting, writing and story" based on your tastes?

This. It's awesome.

Finally got a chance to watch all of it this summer, took me 5-6 weeks, loved it.

Btw, I did the same with The Wire last summer and frankly, I just don't get the passion America has for this show. I know there is a The Shield vs The Wire debate and to be honest not only The Shield is superior, but it's not even close.

Then again, i'm not American.

There were a lot of little things that made The Wire cool (no score or background music was a big one for me).

But one thing I really love about a show is when each season has its own identity.

Season One introduces us to the game at the street level. Season Two explores the decay of the the honest, blue collar urban work force and the ramifications of that decay. Later we get to take a look at the role of the newspapers, the politicians, the schools, etc. I for one liked that a lot. It stopped the show from meandering*. Each season had a topic that Simon wanted to explore, and he did it very well. When it was all said and done we'd taken a look at the city of Baltimore from a number of angles and had a pretty good idea of why and how urban life around America has gone to hell in a hand basket.

*I HATE when a series starts to meander. Ratings are good, and they want to keep making the show, but they're out of ideas, so they just write a bunch of dumb **** and the show loses its identity.

I haven't seen The Shield. Is it "about" anything in particular or do you just like the characters, dialogue, etc.?

The main storyline (Vic Mackey) is Macbeth or King Lear. There are several supporting and divergent storylines of considerable strength. Thematically it is in some ways similar to The Sopranos though the flip side since The Shield's characters are in law enforcement. You could certainly spill a lot of ink comparing and contrasting The Wire, The Shield and The Sopranos and those three are inarguably the cornerstones of modern television crime drama. (Law & Order certainly belongs in the conversation but while it sets the standard for procedurals it's also handcuffed by it's episodic format and need to follow network standard and practices).

What?

Where can you din this? Can't find on netflix.

I'm pretty sure it is on Hulu

The Shield is on Amazon Prime

***mad men season 1 spoilers***

i've only seen season 1, so that's all i'm discussing. i'll start off conceding that the story of draper switching his identity is interesting, and so is his childhood. but those are tiny parts of the show.

the main part of the show is everyone smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol and sleeping around and being sexist. who cares? seriously, the story is guys selling advertising???? and these same guys sleeping with their secretaries. ooooh, one guy tries to blackmail another guy and fails. wow, so enthralling.

oh, a completely uninteresting spoiled rich guy gets one of the secretaries pregnant. i can't stand that intrigue.

draper sleeps with some random beatnick woman who means nothing.

draper sleeps with some client who means nothing.

a single mom moves into the neighborhood and seems actually kinda interesting, but her story line gets about 20 minutes total in the whole season.

a housewife is sad her mom(who we never see) dies, and she starts psychotherapy. housewife is smokin hot so i kinda care

completely uninteresting old guy sleeps with his secretary. later he has a heart attack, and then another one.

blah blah blah. there is no compelling story there. it's just trivial happenings of life in 1960 new york.

good stories are like breaking bad, lord of the rings, shogun, rome... crazy ass **** happens.

don draper: good looking manly man who is good at advertising. he isn't especially nice, mean, crazy, funny or interesting. the most interesting stuff about him, that he is the son of a whore who died in childbirth, and his family hated him... that's hardly part of who he is now. we see almost nothing of that in the first season. we just see some competent 1960 executive. what is so great about don draper?

spoiled, rich, whiny, weak guy: he is almost interesting. but he isn't. it would be interesting if he was about 10 times as greedy and cowardly and selfish.

betty draper: super hot, but other than that she is just a blah housewife.

closet gay guy: he started off pretty funny, but then his character never develops. he just does nothing the whole show. but basically everyone is doing nothing the whole show.

handfull of random office guys: they might as well be the same guy. i don't even know who's who.

homely, talented secretary: i kinda like her, but i'd hardly call her a great character. she is good at advertising, but she is discriminated against because she is a woman.

busty head secretary: she acts like marylin monroe and sleeps around. she's not funny. no one on the show is. she's not nice. no one on the show is. she's not crazy. no one on the show is. she is just pretty much some random office worker in new york in 1960. nothing special about her that i see.

good characters are like al swearengen from deadwood. he'll grab a whore by the **** and throw her down and step on her neck in a violent rage, but he'll love her and need her. and he's not a thug, he's a brilliant tactician. he's hilarious, murderous, offensive, charming.

calamity jane is also a brilliant character on that show. an ugly woman in 1870 south dakota who has absolutely no femininity about her, except her soft heart. she is constantly drunk and in love with who man she can never have. she is hilarious and crazy and tender and brave and cowardly.


as for the writing... it's not terrible, but it's not especially good. good writing will make you laugh. deadwood, the wire, rome... those are all heavy dramas, but we laughed every episode because the characters were always saying funny stuff. i've laughed maybe once or twice in the whole first season of mad men

Maybe it's just me but I find Mad Men really funny.

btw I thought Mad Men got better and better but maybe it's not for you.

Didn't really think about what I loved so much specifically, I was feeling like I just really enjoyed the ride. Now that I think about it, I did really love the characters, particularly the main one, Vic Mackey, and his friend/co-worker the awesome Shane Vendrell. I don't know if you're watching Justified but its the same actor playing Shane Vendrell and Boyd Crowder, and quite frankly he's just killing it. Him being in The Shield cast is actually one of the reasons I gave this show a shot. The secondary characters (if there is such a thing in this show), such as Dutch, Billings, Aceveda, Claudette etc are also very good. Great casting all around.

Something else that The Shield has, and that is a must have for me to really enjoy a show is that everything that happens in the show will matter sometimes in a future episode, it really is a 7 seasons long story starting in s01e01. Of course there is constantly 1, 2 or 3 episodes sub plots, but really it's all about the drama/story evolving over a 7 seasons span.

I could go on a lot longer but english isn't my first language and its taking me forever to put some articulate thoughts together Anyway, bottom line is watch it, its a classic and a great one.

Ok thanks.

Btw, i finished Sherlock recently thanks to you guys recommending it in this thread. It was excellent! He is an excellent Sherlock Holmes. I thought Johnny Lee Miller was really good as Holmes but this guy was even better. Pure genius work on his part.

Is under the dome any good?

Mad Men essentially is a character study of Don Draper/Dick Whitman, with a little 60s atmosphere/history thrown in. He is especially interesting -- the most interesting, deep character ever on TV. His upbringing is a huge part of who he is now. HUGE. At the same time, he's someone who created who he wanted to be and went out and became that person, something everyone can relate with/admire at some level. But he's living a lie and always feels like he's on the run, trying not to get caught.

unwatchable imo

i watched like the first 10 minutes of it and couldn't stand it

Watched the pilot, didn't give second episode a shot.

I guess it's good you stopped since you might of seen the best episode.

There's a thread dedicated to Under the Dome.

Thanks, I'm sold. Bolded would've been enough really, but thank you for the helpful replies.

Filthyvermin

First, Draper/Whitman's past is not "hardly part of who he is now." It has EVERYTHING to do with who he is now. Like Gaddy said, Whitman created a persona that would be everything that he wasn't destined to be, and then he became him. This builds a very unique sympathetic link between viewer and protagonist because, as Gaddy said, we've all fantasized about greener grass at some point, but only Dick-Don went out and did something about it. What's so fascinating for me is the notion that a person can be capable of so much more when they are playing a role than they are being themselves . What's the best way to become more confident? Pretend to be someone who is more confident. But such behavior has its side effects, which the show explores in detail. If you can't get into the Draper arc on these terms then maybe the show isn't for you, but I'd give Season Two a shot, and I'd really recommend that you try to love it and see what happens.

thanks dean. i will keep trying. i don't hate mad men. i just don't think it's fantastic like everyone says. and having such a huge build up has colored my expectations.

and i do get your point about draper recreating himself. my complaint is that i'd like to see more of dick in don. i think we get too much don. i mean i am drawn to him a little. i keep watching.

-The Peggy arc is also very good IMO, and in my experience accurately portrays the dilemma that women in a high-pressure industry face- turn into a bitch or become unsuccessful.

-The beatnik chick was actually involved in some of my favorite S1 episodes. Especially the one that ends with this exchange (paraphrased):

Beatnik Dude: "Hey man the cops are out there, you can't go out there man!"
Draper: (puts on hat) "YOU can't."

It's coming. Don will never escape Dick. The causes of his sexual issues are explored eventually. And we meet the real Don Draper's wife soon (I don't think it's happened yet) and that's a terrific angle IMO.