This is a fair point

LOL, I didn't even notice the date.

Have they edited him as an amazing player? I mean, he did do the Emily whispering early on, and THAT was amazing, but there's been a lot of footage of people wanting to get rid of him asap which is probably not what an amazing player would be shooting for if he were really amazing.

Kaleb = 37 confessionals and a constant stream of positive content
J Maya = 11 confessionals and a constant stream of negative content

I can say with roughly 100% certainly that if the roles had been reversed and J Maya had 'shot in darked' out Kaleb both of them would have been edited differently up to this point.

I see what you're saying but there's always this endless circular debate imo. People want him out because he's a very strong social player, which in some way makes him NOT a strong social player because he overdid it, etc etc.

Like the previous poster said: I'm pretty convinced he got a very positive edit to make sure a lot of people were rooting for him, knowing this moment would come. Totally agree that the edit would most likely have looked quite different had it not happened.

he is def an amazing player. no question about it. sure people have talked about getting rid of him... but look at the rand he got! lol... his tribe lost every challenge. he had probably the worst tribe in survivor history. he has been an obvious threat the whole time, and still on the bottom in terms of numbers, and he's still got a shot to win the whole game.

Amazing players are not so open about courting everyone.

He can't be that open since alliances keep telling his #1 ally Emily what their plans are.

whats the consensus top 5 women players of all time. was wondering to myself where kim spradlin falls in the ranks among woman and men

I would just argue Kaleb has pretty much been "edited" how he is. He's gregarious and likable. It's not as if they've painted him in some way that inflates his character. His tribe went to tribal the most so they had to be featured. I mean I guess in comparison to the quitters and worst challenge player of all time he might come off looking extra good??? I mean he definitely is trying to be there unlike some.

Kim Parv Cirie then Idunno… Sarah? Sophie?

I can't stand her but you can't have a woman discussion without including Sandra, she was a 2x winner.

My top 5 in order would be Cirie, Parvati, Sarah, Kim, Elisabeth

If I had to stake 5 women across 100 Survivor simulations (frozen in time physically from first time they played) guess I would have something like

1. Kim Spradlin
2. Sophie Clarke
3. Danni Boatwright
4. Amanda Kimmel
5. Sarah Lacina

With a honourable mention to Vecepia Towerly also

I have no idea why people count Cirie as such a great player. She would literally never win Survivor or any other strategy game, as we just witnessed in BB where she came fourth - again - because there's zero skill at the endgame portion and she never wins any challenges at all. For the first half she's good at getting through but after that she's always going to be gone.

S. D. T.

She won s1 of The Traitors (US)

That's interesting, I had no idea. Although I'm also surprised they weren't allowed to mention it at all during Big Brother. Probably a rival network show so it got edited out.

I stand corrected, but I still wouldn't put her in my Survivor top 5 women.

I don't disagree with your conclusion. I wouldn't put her in the top 5 either. Survivor requires a subtle mix of skills, any one of which, if you're too obviously dominant at it, you're likely gone. Plus, to get to the end, you have to be able to win the final 4 challenge or be good at making fire, which I agree with 100%.

It's called "Survivor", so it's completely reasonable that at the end, being strong physically (this includes coordination/concentration) and/or being good at an actual wilderness survival skill should be a valid path to victory.

Cirie is an elite social/strategic player, but is lacking in the other two components.

I don't buy this at all, were Cirie to get to the end in Micronesia she would have won against Parvati and Amanda, in what would probably go down as one of the most dominant games of all time given she had a reputation going into the season as a fantastic strategist and tactical player who orchestrated the majority of the blindsides and came up with what is still probably the most iconic move of all time when she masterminded the idea of getting Erik to give up his immunity to get him voted out. She pushed the Ozzy boot too, and if you remember in that season all 3 of the women played with the idea that they were going to a final 3 - the rug just got pulled from underneath her.

Then if you look at Panama - another season where she played the best game, she got eliminated in a spot where Aras wins immunity, Terry can't be eliminated because of the God Mode idol and she still gets the vote to go to fire against Danielle. If you play that season out without the god mode idol, she gets to a final 2 against either Aras or Danielle and probably beats both.

In any case Micronesia is one of the best losing games ever, given she basically got screwed by a twist. I can accept that her being horrendous in challenges is a legitimate criticism of her game, and obviously prevents her from bailing herself out in positions where she's shaky but otherwise IMO she did play at least one winning game that was effectively stolen from her. Give me Cirie over Sandra any day, I thought her endgame positioning in her first two seasons was very good.

Otherwise if you look at her two other performances - in Heroes vs Villains she gained control of the tribe, then got taken out by JT who made probably the last good decision he ever made in his survivor career in a heads up play, taking advantage of a split vote that had to happen from her perspective.

In Game Changers, it's probably her worst game - but if you actually look at how she went out, she spent the round beforehand trying to orchestrate a Tai blindside using Sarah's steal a vote - which actually was the correct play given she got idoled out of the game by Tai's idols the next round, though she made a massive blunder in not looking at the note Sarah gave her.

I'd put her very high on my all-time player list, because she's had numerous deep runs and two games which are inches away from winning games.

Would be interesting to see who everybodies all-time lists would be both genders, I think almost everybody has Tony Vlachos at or near the top.

After that I think I'd still have Kim Spradlin, who at least tried to go against Tony and had the most dominant showing of all-time in One World. Sophie. Parvati, but sometimes I think she's a tad overrated. Cirie, Malcolm, Sarah, Jeremy, I may put in some odd shouts like Wendell, Tommy from Season 39, I really like David Wright, Stephen Fischbach and Rob Cesternino also.


As far as ranking women specifically:

1. Kim Spradlin
2. Cirie Fields
3. Sarah Lacina (Even beyond her Game Changers performance, take a look back and see how many times in Winners at War people refuse to vote her out against their best interests
4. Sophie Clarke
5. Parvati Shallow

I think maybe you could have all of those in your top 10 survivor players of all time.

Because usually the interference isn't that bad, but I honestly felt like quitting after HHH.

After the first season she won it was hard to rank Sophie just because things fell her way super hard. She did well to captalise on all that good luck though.

After her second time she definitely a top 3 best women's player ever for sure. Just got taken out by the GOAT in a great move.

For my stake five men across 100 simulations list id be looking at something like

1. Tommy Sheehan
2. Earl Cole
3. Ethan Zohn
4. Yul Kwon
5. Aras Baskauskas

I just don't think the obvious names of Sandra, Cirie, Parvati, Tony and Boston Rob are well rounded enough at all three facets of the game to have them close to my top 5

I think there's also a massive difference between when the first time someone plays and the second or third because people know who they are and their strategy. For example, Rob wasn't great during his first season but than killed it in his second (even though he handed the win to Amber). Tony dominated his first and then got smoked his second (although won the third). Ethan had a great first season as well but then easily got eliminated in later ones. Same with Aras.

It's almost impossible to simulate things because of all the variables, the biggest of those being who else is on the beach with them. I have Kim as one of my top females, but if it wasn't split men/women to give her an initial advantage, would she have made it so easily?

Tony is the goat

Russell is the best at outwit but sucks at the rest

Rob might be overrated but still not being on your list is surprising