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Making a Murderer Making a Murderer

08-08-2018 , 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight
Wait, Peterson is free?
According to Wikipedia, Peterson was released having paid his debt to society.

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On February 24, 2017, Peterson entered an Alford plea (a guilty plea whereby a defendant admits guilt because sufficient evidence exists to convict him of the offense, but the defendant asserts innocence) to the voluntary manslaughter of Kathleen Peterson. The judge sentenced him to a maximum of 86 months in prison, with credit for time previously served. Because Peterson had already served more time than the sentence (98.5 months), he did not face additional prison time.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michae...l)#Alford_plea
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08-08-2018 , 06:04 PM
Just read a bit on Staircase and recalled from the podcast as well that the state’s blood spatter “expert” was eventually exposed as a fraud and fired fwiw
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08-08-2018 , 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kamikam
You gotta be kidding. MAM is biased (and I for one am torn on whether he/they did it) but The Staircase is full on PR documentary. At least in MAM they mention the embarassing stuff for the defendant whereas in TS it takes 7-8 episode to hear a brief mention of extremely damning evidences they could have mentionned in the first episode.

MAM is biased, but TS is a god damn PR operation.
Especially since the accused was sleeping with the editor
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08-08-2018 , 07:20 PM
Regarding Staircase vs MaM, here's a great explanation from a redditor who has researched both cases in depth:

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The Staircase sure follows the Making a Murderer playbook. (Or is it the other way around...)

Embed yourself with defense team/family... (law enforcement and opposition get wind of what you're doing soon enough, and steer clear)

Airbrush out some of state's case and amplify the defense's... to make it look like a "closer ballgame" than it really was. No one wants to watch a blowout

Say it's all about looking at justice system, and not guilt/innocence... but rely on the "did he do it?" question to reel in viewers, drive the narrative, and keep them hooked

Know that research outside the program will lead viewers to conclude guilt and recognize the bias of your show... but by that time you've made your $ and provided entertainment to the masses

Netflix could rinse and repeat, do this every 3 years...
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Re the respective crime timelines, and original airings of The Staircase, and the ethics of these programs

Yes, I'm aware of the respective crime timelines; the passing question posed was semi-rhetorical. (MaM actually began its construction relatively shortly after the release of The Staircase; IIRC the Staircase covered a 2003 trial and emerged in 2004/05,, and MaM's crime occured in 2005 with a 2007 trial.)

Totally disagree that "the prosecution has only itself to blame" (due to non-participation) for the defense slant. See my original post above for inklings as to why, but I'll expound below.

These programs are deliberately constructed on a slant. No one forces the filmmakers to omit testimony helpful to the state, such as red neurons, luminol footprints and fractured thyroid cartilage in The Staircase and the blood in Steve's own car, his DNA on her car's hood latch, or the fact that the bullet with her DNA on it matched a gun in Steve's possession to the exclusion of other guns, in MaM. No one forces filmmakers like MaM's Demos & Ricciardi to play ominous music behind law enforcement testimony or to splice in a witness answer that was never offered, or to play up as meaningful long-debunked case aspects, like the hole in the blood vial's stopper, and then never provide the easily-available innocent explanation for such aspects. These are choices the filmmakers make in assembling their programs, regardless of their limited access to the prosecution.

What these shows provide is primarily entertainment. Docudramas. They are not and should not be taken as comprehensive or objective journalistic looks at criminal cases. As long as people "get" that, it mitigates things a bit... though a good argument can easily be made that they are injurious to the victims and their families. When Candace includes the filmmakers in her Alford dressing down, I do feel her. While yes, I recognize that exposing injustice from the state's side (e.g., Deaver) is a positive outcome of these programs, it's concerning that they confuse and distort the realities of a criminal case that centers around a loss of life and a grieving family. I think we can take as certain that Kathleen and Teresa's families have no love for these programs, and I believe their feelings are justified.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheStaircas...story/e0yudcv/
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08-08-2018 , 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Regarding Staircase vs MaM, here's a great explanation from a redditor who has researched both cases in depth:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheStaircas...story/e0yudcv/

Interesting...

"Netflix could rinse and repeat, do this every 3 years... "

That's a pretty cynical and stinging backhand at the justice system in the USA.

"I recognize that exposing injustice from the state's side (e.g., Deaver) is a positive outcome of these programs..."

I agree with this important point.

Exposing injustice on the part of the state is always going to be important in a democracy, where an informed citizenry is vital.

ymmv
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08-08-2018 , 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight
So where did it come from? Give me a theory that even makes a lick of sense.
Dassey planted it.
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08-09-2018 , 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by housenuts
Dassey planted it.
Which Dassey?

Considering the crime scene was secured by LE, when and how did this Dassey plant it?
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08-09-2018 , 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by proudfootz
Whose coat would it likely have 'fallen' from - Lenk's or Colburn's?

There doesn't seem to be any coat belonging to Steven Avery in the vicinity.
There is, its been a while since ive looked at the photos but there is a coat hanging on a door near the slippers. One theory I heard was that the keys fell out of the pocket of the coat when the coat was removed from the door during the search.

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Originally Posted by proudfootz
The shelves are pointing away from the location where the key supposedly suddenly materialized.
If the key is lodged in the back of the shelves backboard its easy to see how the key could have fallen out of the back while being moved around and fallen on top of the slippers.

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Originally Posted by proudfootz
FFS - even the cop that was supposed to be keeping an eye on Lenk & Colburn because of their obvious conflict of interest thinks they could have planted the key:

"What about your observations (makes) you believe (it) was impossible or improbable to plant that key?" Kratz continued.

"My actual observations, I would have to say that it could be possible, as in I was doing other things, I was taking photographs, I was searching the nightstand," Kucharski said. "So if we're just limiting it to if it was possible they could do it without me seeing it, then yes, I guess it is possible."

This is quote mining. As he goes on:

Kratz:"is that in the sense that anything is possible"

Kurchaski: "thats in the sense that its possible aliens put it there I guess"

Clearly Kurchaski was saying its possible in a Cartesian doubt sort of way.


Either way all of this is sort of avoiding the question that it doesnt make sense for a key to be planted on the second trip to averys room. Oddly enough, the more times the same member of LE enters the room the less likely it becomes the key was planted in the way it was discovered.
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08-09-2018 , 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorSkillz
Which Dassey?

Considering the crime scene was secured by LE, when and how did this Dassey plant it?
I think this was House Nuts attempt at humor. Were just supposed to go LOL Fraley or something.
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08-09-2018 , 12:34 AM
Well, every conspiracy theory presented ITT can be considered a joke, but I don't think the theorists have been in on it.
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08-09-2018 , 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight
There is, its been a while since ive looked at the photos but there is a coat hanging on a door near the slippers. One theory I heard was that the keys fell out of the pocket of the coat when the coat was removed from the door during the search.
While that is an interesting theory, there is no evidence that key was ever in Steven's coat.

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If the key is lodged in the back of the shelves backboard its easy to see how the key could have fallen out of the back while being moved around and fallen on top of the slippers.
It may be easy for you to imagine the key somehow falling out of the back of the shelf and somehow bouncing to the side. My imagination isn't so vivid.

As it is we have no evidence the key was ever on those shelves either.

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This is quote mining.
I'm quoting the relevant material. Kurchaski admits he was not watching what Lenk & Colburn were doing, as he was supposed to be doing.

Why was Kurchaski babysitting them? Because of the admitted conflict of interest due to Steven's lawsuit against their department.
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As he goes on:

Kratz:"is that in the sense that anything is possible"

Kurchaski: "thats in the sense that its possible aliens put it there I guess"

Clearly Kurchaski was saying its possible in a Cartesian doubt sort of way.
The obvious question is whether Kurchaski observed any aliens in the room when the key suddenly materialized on the floor.

Is there anyone who thinks aliens planting the key is equally likely as humans planting the key? Then why not think aliens abducting Teresa is equally likely?

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Either way all of this is sort of avoiding the question that it doesnt make sense for a key to be planted on the second trip to averys room. Oddly enough, the more times the same member of LE enters the room the less likely it becomes the key was planted in the way it was discovered.
I disagree.

As I have already pointed out there is no reason to assume Colburn & Lenk must have had the key in their possession during the search on the 5th.
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08-09-2018 , 05:39 AM
^^ Jasus...


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08-09-2018 , 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight
Kurchaski: "its possible aliens put it there I guess"
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08-09-2018 , 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by proudfootz
You realize this is a hyperbole right? Do you actually think "aliens planted the key" is a viable theory in his mind?
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08-09-2018 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraleyight
You realize this is a hyperbole right? Do you actually think "aliens planted the key" is a viable theory in his mind?
To be fair, "aliens planted all the evidence" is one of the more viable "Avery was framed" theories out there.
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08-09-2018 , 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by fraleyight
You realize this is a hyperbole right? Do you actually think "aliens planted the key" is a viable theory in his mind?
For some reason a law enforcement officer testifying under oath in a murder trial tried to make a joke to cover up for his utter incompetence.

Kucharski was supposed to be keeping an eye on Colburn & Lenk so that they wouldn't do something hinky.

He takes his eyes off them for a minute, and the next thing you know the magic key suddenly appears out of nowhere.

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08-15-2018 , 09:52 AM
So barb handed over the computer hard drive to K.Z. Lets see what Mr Hunt can find.
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08-15-2018 , 02:14 PM
Yeah...


Spoiler:
TICK-TOCK!!!! (and um, etc...
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08-15-2018 , 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by smacc25
So barb handed over the computer hard drive to K.Z. Lets see what Mr Hunt can find.
Apparently the state was interested enough in this computer to hide the report they did on it before the trial years ago, and interested enough to seize it a second time during this round of appeals.

We now know that one of the suspects was addicted to violent rape and murder porn (unlike Steven Avery).

So we have a big advantage over the juries with all the additional evidence.
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08-15-2018 , 05:07 PM
Yep we just gotta be patient as Zellcat said...in March. Of 2017. Any day now...
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08-15-2018 , 10:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by proudfootz
Apparently the state was interested enough in this computer to hide the report they did on it before the trial years ago, and interested enough to seize it a second time during this round of appeals.

We now know that one of the suspects was addicted to violent rape and murder porn (unlike Steven Avery).

So we have a big advantage over the juries with all the additional evidence.
And also told Barb to "get rid of it" ,apparently.

I seem to remember that steven's computer had no such illicit images on it of any kind...

And if it is what you say it is, then there will be a lot of evidence on that computer.
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08-16-2018 , 02:54 AM
Exculpatory evidence that will totally clear Cuddly Bear's name. The Zellnami is coming just wait. (and wait and wait...)
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08-16-2018 , 05:40 AM
Zellcat lying again
https://twitter.com/ZellnerLaw/statu...29716679819265

Both Mario Casciaro & Ryan Ferguson had their convictions vacated & neither were exonerated or found innocent when the convictions were vacated.

http://www.nwherald.com/2018/01/25/m...-teen/apy9b8j/

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“The fact that Mr. Casciaro and his lawyers have dismissed his Petition for Innocence after nearly a year of proceedings and just prior to the final hearing is disgraceful,” Kenneally said. “Mr. Casciaro has said a lot of things and pointed a lot of fingers. He claimed he is innocent. He claimed prosecutors acted inappropriately. He claimed a witness, who conveniently has since died and can no longer defend himself, is the real culprit. All anyone really needs to know, however, is that on the day prior to the final hearing, when he would have been required to actually ‘prove’ these claims, he tellingly cut bait and dismissed his Petition.”

It is unclear whether attorneys will try other avenues to clear Casciaro’s record.
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08-16-2018 , 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by smacc25
And also told Barb to "get rid of it" ,apparently.
It doesn't seem like the local law enforcement can't do anything without acting in a way that betrays consciousness of guilt.
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I seem to remember that steven's computer had no such illicit images on it of any kind...
That fact certainly points up something interesting about this case and the way the state mishandled inculpatory evidence about their star witness.

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And if it is what you say it is, then there will be a lot of evidence on that computer.
What's already been revealed is bad enough. It's entirely possible there is more to come.
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08-16-2018 , 06:21 AM
Ticktock.
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