My sister played the violin growing up and I had a friend that was only an above average cellist that had a $10k instrument. Having known that and knowing the Steinway name, I should have known it would be in that range, but $100k still seems like a lot!

Leon,
The kids play or is it for you?

Where is the expense? Surely the materials couldn't be more than 5k. What does it take to manufacture one?

leon - please don't invest in a steinway and not also have serious consideration given to the acoustics of the room you are building to keep it in.

:Elon Musk has entered the chat:

Lots of good questions here. We're out of town right now, I'll try and answer but likely won't be checking in here until end of week.

Kids and I all play. Youngest has pivoted to drums since Xmas. I'm definitely the most serious player, I've only been playing a few years but average 2 hrs/practice a day (some days more like 3 ish). When I get into something, I tend to get in "all the way", it becomes an obsession. With the piano I know it's something that I'm going to be doing until the day that I die, as long as I'm able.

There is no question that from a pure ability/"need" standpoint I have zero need for a Steinway. I could probably play on an upright or cheaper grand for at least another 5 yrs before I'd really notice, care, or my ability developed to the point that I really needed a quality instrument. However, I also know that at SOME point in my life I'll be there. So my purchase now was partly influenced by having the funds now, partly bc of a huge sale, and partly bc I know one day I'll want the piano.

I went with Steinway specifically bc of all the brands it truly is the "Rolls Royce" of pianos. No other brand can retain or even increase in value over time like Steinway. The model I bought is the most sought after model Steinway has to offer for "mortals" in the world, and so in turn is the most sought-after grand, period. It's partly an investment, partly my instrument for the rest of my life, and partly a work of art.

I'm amused that someone could think a high quality grand could be purchased for less than 50k (not in a mean way). I guess I just never would make that assumption- just like I would never make that assumption of a good Ferrari or Bugatti.

Anyways, I'll be the first to admit it's too much instrument for me right now. I've made the investment now, on the knowledge that I'm going to be playing into it for the rest of my life and I get to do it on a once in a lifetime purchase!

I knew a high school girl that bought a Steinway with her babysitting money. Well, it was a baby grand. And it was the 80's. She had concert player talent, helped her win the local Miss America satellite.

Don't feel too bad Leon, it was a PSA 10 Gem Mint graded version and the case also assigned by the late artist, both factors significantly boosting the price. All the Power 9 have gone way up, but unopened sealed product is what's skyrocketed. If you kept a sealed box of Beta instead of opening packs, you'd have more than $500k, and boxes of Arabian Nights are creeping into that territory, if you can even find them. Even boxes of Revised now go for upwards of $15, and those were far more widely available than ABU or the four horsemen sets.

Leon,
Can I ask you a serious question?
Have you ever been down to last bit of your liferolll and then you hit a monster hand?

Nice hit man. Session roll for sure, more times than I can count. It's almost like the machine knows and gives you that hit just to keep you going.

Thanks Leon, it was last Friday and I’m still on cloud 9

I played a little wheel poker to and walked out up 10k

Wow,

I’m going to get like 3k freeplay next month from two local casinos. I had about 2k this month.



What is your loco giving you guys?

Stormtrooper hijacking this thread like he always does.

Are you Scotty Bear from YouTube?

I have not been on here in like a year. What’s wrong with inquiring about what offers other high rollers like Leon and Guy Incognito are getting at the local?

Your the one that goes on The Trooper Thread, swears it off and posts a week later

I once went to Wynn for the birthday party of an Asian billionaire. There were about 100 people total in his entourage, with all rooms, shows (even at other casinos), spa treatments and meals comped. Every meal was at one of the fine dining restaurants closed just for us. Birthday dinner at the function room with a private La Reve performance, followed by fireworks viewed from the back balcony. Everyone got a door gift of a Sony digital camera, and at one point bundles of money fell from the ceiling (mostly $20s and $100s but up to $5000). They even let the ladies play $5 blackjack in the high-limit room lol.

In 1999? my family got a new steinway for just under 50k. the price of these has really held up.

Did you play it before you bought it? just curious. I played piano for over a decade from a young age and part of me cringes at spending that without getting to do the "choosing" part of getting a new instrument

i think its tough for "niche" things; if you have no idea, you have NO idea.. it reminds me of joshua bell (vid) and his 4m or w.e violin. i would say the general public has a much better idea of ferraris relation to the car world than steinway to instruments.

my mom played trumpet through college and wanted us (2 sisters+me) to learn an instrument.. i made it maybe 2 weeks and was the longest its definitely something i think about later on with more free time tho

Just realized I didn't answer this. 200$ free play a month. 500$ cash comp, plus presumably unlimited food, rooms, etc. I only play full pay at my local so I can see why they're not super interested in giving more.

Definitely got to play it, and it'll be totally customized for me before I receive it in terms of setting the action, voicing, etc. I'm actually headed back tomorrow to bang on some of their other pianos and really get a feel for what I want. And yet, there is STILL part of me that cringes at how much money I dropped on something I never REALLY got to know. I mean, play over the course of months and then decide-type knowing. But unfortunately I was never going to get that luxury. At least it'll hold its value!

What model did your family get? It makes a big difference with Steinways. The B is the largest before their concert grands- it is the only one that retails over 100k at baseline. The other models were apparently specifically created to offer "baby grand" size, or offer a grand below 100k (model A).


Oh absolutely, I get that. I have no idea how art is valued, for example. Being a piano enthusiast has allowed me to have some understanding of just how intricate and expensive a quality instrument is. When you think of the man hours, the 12,000 moving parts which have to fine tuned by hand, the quality of the materials, and THEN the name (bc let's be honest, god knows how much markup there is just bc of the name Steinway)... I can see 100k easy.

we got the "L" which apparently they stopped making in 2005, but its the same size as the "O" today. Actually asked my dad about this and he said he thinks he paid ~38k and the B was like 44k at the time but just felt too big for the house. I remember thinking as a teenager the salesman was full of it when he said they were an investment, and yeah its no appl stock but to think theyd be over 100k today is pretty impressive.

Obviously you cant go wrong with the brand name and model B. Having been fortunate to have a Steinway at home i love them and they are great and actually price competitive compared to high end euro like fazioli/bosendorfer. Purely as an instrument I believe that yamaha/kawaii, esp after yamaha bought bosendorfer, are just as good, but just don't have the "high end art" bragging rights. Not that 99% of people would care or could tell the difference between a 20k and 100k grand piano

Vegas Feb slot tournament and "TR"

So I've got another one for you guys. You'll see that the entire report will be contained in this post, which of course is a dead giveaway of the overall result. So let's get that explanation out of the way right now.

Obviously I lost. Streak over. We knew it was coming eventually, but it still stings. I'll give the overall recap, but as you'll see I really do not feel like rehashing the entire weekend and taking the time to upload all the pics, etc. So what I'll give you is the distilled version as well as pics that were really interesting, cool, etc. I apologize but I just don't have it in me to write up a full TR that ultimately was just this massive kick in the nuts.

Backstory-

I had set this trip up pretty much as soon as I came back in Jan. As a reminder, I was on an 8 trip Vegas winning streak, didn't lose there in 2020 at all, and bankroll was over 300k. I then proceeded to buy a super premium grand piano (and of course I'm looking at a 50-80k house remodel on top of that). Still, bankroll is healthy, and I'm still running hot! There's a 2500+500 slot tournament that I'm scheduled to play in (and of course bink, I'm overdue).

I'm going with some friends that I've been with before. Tried to convince wife to go, but she is completely Vegas'd out. Friends are planning on bringing their daughter, so I might not be able to hang out with them much outside of dinners. I get them a two bedroom Parlor suite and take their regular room which they've received a free offer for. I also have my typical 2k food/bev comp and the plan is we'll use that up first, they cover the tip, and then we meet in the middle. I feel like I've earned myself some good karma for the trip!

Bankroll- 30k
Agenda- basically gamble a ton each day, we've got dinners set up at SW, Sinatra and Mizumi. Slot tourney is Sat, first prize is 100k (35k for first in the rebuy portion).

Day -1

So I put in a long work week and cannot wait to go to Vegas. The night before, I have some time, say "meh F it" and head to the local to pad the bankroll a bit. And pad it I do!



Need a good draw here!

Result-


Definitely a good result, definitely an above avg kicker draw.

So with that, I head to Vegas the next day tired but ready to go. All of the daytime part of day 1 is awful- I'm trying to slow it down a bit, but it doesn't matter what I do, I'm just bleeding. "My" machine is ice cold and I can't get anything from it. I switch to UX before dinner despite knowing that cold UX could decimate me, and receive sort of a slap in the face (I received many, many more slaps over the weekend. It truly was like the machines were alive, and not only intended to take their money back but insult me on the way out).



These were my first pair of aces into quads. I had already drawn at a pair 100s of times, and trips 3-4 times, no dice. But on one hand? Twice. No KICKER OBV! Happy/sad.

I head to dinner down about 10k. Post dinner was amazing and I literally assumed I was going to book winner number 9 and keep this streak going. Once again, had that, "no way 2+2 believes this" and "barring a total disaster, I'm going home winner!" thought. Check these out-



The start of the come back. I'm now UP over 10k!



It just couldn't have come at a better time.



First dealt quads of the trip- I was overdue, but I'll still take them.

You can see from the credits in the machine how massive of an upswing that was. In fact, I learned a new fact- the credit limit (at least on that machine) was 50k- I know bc I crossed that mark at some point and they had to give me a ticket bc keying into the machine would have put me over 50k!!!!

Now... as type this, I'm feeling that kick in the nuts again. Yes, you read that right. Despite at some point but up 40k, I STILL found a way to lose.

Here's part of the issue- since I was up so much, I kept going at 10 line UX, even after it turned. Sure, the big hits are what got me there, but that's also a trap of sorts. I really have to remember that shot taking is NOT "hit your shot, then make that the new norm". Stayed up way too late and gave back 10k. I think I went to bed at almost 2am and STILL woke up around 5:30am. I literally took two naps the next day to try and recover. And for what?

The other issue- it's a long run game. I have no reason to jam and try and turn a big win into a monster. I have to remember I'm playing to survive- at a minimum, what's the need to play at 1am vs 10am the next day? Why ruin my rest? It's not like there's such a thing as a "hot machine" or "hot period". The machines will be there tomorrow. I let myself forget that (again). So dumb.

Anyways, from day 2 on I literally went through the coldest patch of any trip. Had I not been up 30k going into day 2, this would definitely have been my biggest trip loss ever. Just waves of garbage, can't hit any draws, lots of slaps in the face, etc (eg, regular quads 3/10 spots from a pair). Here's a good example-



Sure, I can't convert trip aces x 200 draws, but I can get this three times.

Looking back, it was the PERFECT tilt inducing storm. Tired. Big win the first day. Then, ice, missed draws so often it was borderline insanity. I think I gave back about 13k on day 2- now I'm starting to get a little worried. Still have all of day 3 and most of day 4 to survive. BUT, I'm still up 17k and I've got the slot tourney; surely I can't lose, can I?

Give back 10k the AM of day 3 and now I'm SERIOUSLY worried. I'm up on 7k and I have 24hrs to go. That's nothing. Pin all my hopes on a slot tourney that was AWFUL. Perfect example- the machine I'm supposed to start at, the guy in front of me posted the highest single round score I have ever seen (63k in 5 min). I've NEVER seen anyone break 55k, let alone 63k. So not only is it apparent from the outset that we've got a STEEP mountain to climb, but...

of course that machine turns to ice for me. OF COURSE.

Rd 2 is even worse, and Rd 3 is pretty good- just enough for that glimmer of hope that if the rebuy rd is god, I can win this thing! And of course, the rebuy rd is the WORST of the 4. I literally did not hit ONE high paying payout, and you pretty much need 10-15 per round to get a great score. F this machine. F these tournies.

So now post tourney I'm barely up, and I have a heart to heart with myself. This streak is just arbitrary, based solely on a random trip when I won until now. I could just as easily start measuring from another point and it's not a streak anymore. In addition, even my stop win/loss is arbitrary- it's not like I'm going to stop gambling entirely, and what difference does it make if I lock up a few k win now but then give it back in 5 min the next trip? And course, in the long run the answer is it DOESN'T matter.

I'm here to have fun. I'm here to gamble. Losing is part of the game, and I've just gotten so used to winning (and lucky to be able to say that) that I've forgotten what it's like to lose. This is the NORM.

So, with those thoughts I decide to just play, make the best of it and realize I'm probably going to book a loss. Still have a huge bankroll which has paid for so many things. I'm good.

I play a bit more on "my" machine (which honestly was the worst this weekend, it's truly like they doomswitched me on that machine), then decide to mix it up and head to hi limit and the multiline machine that dealt my dad 200k back in 2016. I really don't like the hi limit room at the Wynn, but at this stage nothing else is working.

I elect to play 15 lines and the machine starts ULTRA hot. I think I got dealt trips at least 20 times in the first 200 hands. However, I hit NONE of the premiums, including trip aces THREE TIMES. This is getting absurd, and of course is tilt-inducing.

I'm still up on the machine, of course, given all those regular quad hits. Keep going. I'm so overdue for dealt quads this trip it's not even funny. So of course, the machine hits me with dealt quads twice in 5 min, and both times they're standard-




Both of which are worth a mere-



But I'm sure some of you can imagine it, feel it- might the comeback be on? Might this not be the start of yet another massive last night, of which I've had so many?

I sure thought so. Let's go to 20 lines, 100$ a push.

I got dealt trip aces FIVE times. Literally missed them all. I think I was 0/25 on trip ace draws over that stretch, so 0/250-300 individual draws. It was statistically WAY more likely I'd hit at some point than not. SO, SO, SO, tilting. Of course, I hit the odd 2000 here and there, just enough to keep me awake... keep me alive...

Finally threw in the towel after yet another late night, and yet another loss. F THIS F'ING MACHINE!!!!!

Final day- I actually sleep in bc there's no question. I'm going home a loser. Tried my usual again, sucked. Tried craps again, sucked. I played craps several times over the weekend obv, and had a couple minor winners, some medium losers and of course all the torture. EVERY SINGLE TIME we started to catch a roll, the dice would fly off the table, someone new would buy in, etc. And then 7. OBVIOUSLY. I know there's no correlation, but on a trip like this one, you can see how craps can make someone superstitious. Just not fun, and overall craps took away from rather than added to my weekend experience.

Anyways, somehow I end up back at the multiline machine again, and AGAIN it's ultra hot, and AGAIN I CAN'T HIT ANYTHING!!!!!!!! Dealt 4 to a royal twice and trip aces once at 15 lines in the first 10 min- BLANK THEM ALL. Meanwhile regular quads are the easiest thing in the world to hit.

The whole experience was so tilt inducing that even now thinking about it I'm getting mad again, so I hope you all can appreciate why I don't won't to write up a detailed TR. Anyways, when all was said and done-

Result- -12k, EXACTLY what I took home from that pre-trip to the local.

So, I guess in the grand scheme of things this was a blip on the radar, and I recognize how lucky I am to be able to say that. I'll be back soon, of course. I'm shocked how I STILL have so much to learn with bankroll and money management, and I guess in that respect it was a relatively cheap, ongoing lesson.

Thanks for reading!

definitely seems like you got used to riding the wave a bit there! pre streak, how many -12k trips were sprinkled in with basically zero concern? big big swings but obv to be expected.

did friends enjoy the trip at least?

You have an incredible thread here and I wish you all the luck.

I tried to read the first page to get an idea of how poker got you to your first VP trips, but couldn't really find anything specific. I guess my question is, do you not find joy in playing poker anymore? If nothing else, sitting down at the 5/10 or 10/20 with a few bullets might help slow the VP bleeding and ease the tilt?

I'm mostly comfortable in a 2/5 or 5/10 live game and there is something so cathartic about sitting down at a $15 Pai Gow table, imbibing in too many whiskeys, and just not caring about winning or losing a few hundred bucks over the course of an evening.

Just curious if you'd ever go and sit and be the Whale at a small holdem game for fun or if you gotta feel the monetary sting to enjoy it. (Which I also completely understand and do not judge.)

Marsh

leon,

Glad we could there to let you blow off steam. Hope the writing helped. I know occasionally I'll post about some stupid **** that's happened, and it's good to get it off my chest.

reading this again, i didnt mean the tone to come off so sarcastic lol... gettem next time

Fair question. Basically I went from poker to being bored with poker/hating NL/making good money to blackjack, to craps, to VP (via introduction from dad/my knowledge it's one of the best casino games). To this day, the thought of grinding is a non-starter. Plus I know I'd probably be a dog in any game big enough to interest me and quite frankly I'd rather give my money to the casinos (and have a chance to smash huge) than some smug ass grinder who probably would think I'm a donk that doesn't have a clue.

As far as splashing at low limit, I've done that many times before and I've come to think it's douche move. Sure, it was fun to blind raise, constantly straddle etc etc but realistically I'm just throwing money away, even if a small amount. Plus if you run good and crush people sure, you can tilt some people which is fun for a bit, but only if they deserve it and honestly it's still taking fun from someone else's misery. Ultimately what I'd be saying is "whee look at me, I'm so rich I don't care" and that's not the look I want to portray.

It didn't, you're good.