PokerCast Episode 166 - Daniel Negreanu, Scarlet Robinson & Alan Boston - Page 5 - Two Plus Two Pokercast

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PokerCast Episode 166 - Daniel Negreanu, Scarlet Robinson & Alan Boston

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04-01-2011 , 02:26 AM

#101

NTRT7o

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 110

Exactly, multi accounting by a break even player or donk isn't cheating the other players in the game.

04-01-2011 , 02:39 AM

#102

tgtbtu

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5

PokerStars Steve was evasive concerning player count. Only about 20 percent of the player count listed are cash players. This information is available at http://pokerscout.com/

04-01-2011 , 03:27 AM

#103

onesandzeros

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMUTTTT

Feels like im walking straight into the bloodbath by saying this, but here we go..

I am underaged myself, i turn 17 in may. My situation is similar but not the same as Brandon's. What we share together tho, is having been backed by reputable and well known people in the poker community.

A big factor we dont have in common is he is now 18 which makes his case a bit different, but i feel like i have to interject anyway.

Playing poker underaged is breaking the T&C, thats just the way it is and regardless of what people think that is always the way it is.
The general apprehension on whether it is in fact CHEATING or not seems to differ quite a bit though.
The problem is, noone can probably find a definite answer to that as opposed to the T&C matter where it is a clear "right answer"
However, cheating per se is a definite term as well.

to defraud; swindle:
to deceive; influence by fraud
to elude;

Im not the right guy to decide wheter playing underaged online poker falls under those criterias or not, but there are some things i feel like everyone should take into account before they make their decision on whether to look down on the whole thing or not, unfortunately but not surprisingly it seems to be divided into two camps. Very anti-underaged or simply 100% cool with it.

First off, there are some assumptions and statements itt i in all honesty find to be quite absurd.
Stealing tournament EV. Hmm. An underaged player at the table...who wins money.. but shouldnt even be there in the first case.
Yeah that might be stealing EV huh? Winning yet shouldnt even sit at the same table as the others..Or maybe getting an unfair advanta...hey, stop!
An underaged player does not get an unfair advantage. Not at all.
He or she plays poker under the exact same premises as everyone else.
Everyone else who isnt a bot, colluding, or multiaccounting.

Despite the first statement being quite reasonable at first glance, that a player who shouldnt be there gains EV he or she shouldnt have, it doesnt really make much sense IMO.

For one, when PS has an ongoing investigation concerning an underaged player, they dont rent Phil Ivey and David Sklansky to calculate the underaged players EV.
There is no way Pokerstars or Fulltilt or whatever will ever make their decision/punishment based on what abilities the player in question hold.

It cant possibly be taken (and obviously isnt to date) into account when investigating a players account.

Lets say we stick to the EV concern while discussing this further.
Assume, of 100 underaged players, 99 of them are totally atrocious.
They donate chips. Should a player who played underaged still be looked down on like a thief who stole a wallet lying on the street (for those who claims he steals EV and is in fact a pure cheater)?

Also, if we once again assume, that god writes itt and say playing underaged is in fact stealing value from your opponents is it comparable to other crimes like cheating by MAing, colluding or playing w a bot?
No way. The amounts of value were talking here are minimal if any.
Should the rest of the field who are 18+ be refunded for their value "taken by another player"?

Should the underaged player who deposits $215 and spews it off every sunday get his money back for giving people value they shouldnt have?

Im not gonna jump right into the discussion on how this affects peoples perception of poker, cause i couldnt be less informed or wellgrounded (read: biased)

tldr

04-01-2011 , 03:38 AM

#104

onesandzeros

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Johnson

I consider it violating the TOS of the poker room

After more thought this is really the only point imo. Everything else speaks for itself.

04-01-2011 , 10:58 AM

#105

yokohama

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 55

great stuff from alan boston

isn't it about time we had the weely bostoncast with boston's views and a bit of poker chat from mike and the other bloke?

04-01-2011 , 12:01 PM

#106

Mike Johnson

Former Pokercast Co-Host

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 6,865

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRT7o

Exactly, multi accounting by a break even player or donk isn't cheating the other players in the game.

I'm assuming you're just trolling now but I'll bite. Um yes it is because the rules against multi-accounting are based on all players being treated equal, regardless of their skill or ability. When you enter a tournament, you aren't asked or rated based on what your ability/skill is, everyone is considered an equal calibre player when the event starts. Therefore, when you enter multiple-times and the other players in the tournament don't have the opportunity to do the same, you are stealing EV(whether you are Ivey or a drooler).

When discussing rules and hypotheticals, playing ability is removed from the conversation in all circumstances.

04-01-2011 , 02:04 PM

#107

jukinu

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 118

Boston is the man! I'd rather listen to him every week than listen to another internet kid that "lives in a sick house in Thailand".

04-01-2011 , 03:03 PM

#108

NTRT7o

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Johnson

I'm assuming you're just trolling now but I'll bite. Um yes it is because the rules against multi-accounting are based on all players being treated equal, regardless of their skill or ability. When you enter a tournament, you aren't asked or rated based on what your ability/skill is, everyone is considered an equal calibre player when the event starts. Therefore, when you enter multiple-times and the other players in the tournament don't have the opportunity to do the same, you are stealing EV(whether you are Ivey or a drooler).

When discussing rules and hypotheticals, playing ability is removed from the conversation in all circumstances.

I think we have different definitions of multi-accounting. I assumed multi-accounting was having 2 or more accounts registered on the site and not necessarily playing the same MTT twice. Like the players who have 1 for MTTs and 1 for cash.

Your last sentence is not correct at all, a drooler would be adding EV to the MTT not taking any away.

What do you say to all the 18 year old kids who did not break the TOS and started playing on their 18th birthday who are at a major disadvantage against CompleteDonk. He cheated to get that edge correct?

Last edited by NTRT7o; 04-01-2011 at 03:08 PM.

04-01-2011 , 09:36 PM

#109

talonchick

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRT7o

What do you say to all the 18 year old kids who did not break the TOS and started playing on their 18th birthday who are at a major disadvantage against CompleteDonk. He cheated to get that edge correct?

Now this is an interesting consideration.

04-02-2011 , 12:15 AM

#110

onesandzeros

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by jukinu

Boston is the man! I'd rather listen to him every week than listen to another internet kid that "lives in a sick house in Thailand".

LOL +1000000

04-02-2011 , 12:20 AM

#111

onesandzeros

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 595

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRT7o

He cheated to get that edge correct?

Yup.

04-02-2011 , 12:33 AM

#112

driver

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 241

Another great show, of course, and while there were many potential controversial topics brought up I think none were quite as offensive as that geezer Adam Schwartz bashing the lo-fi sounds of some of the greatest groups in indierockdom.

MJ, you need to force Adam listen to cannon of lo-fi; Sebadoh's Bakesale, Pavement's Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain and GBV's Alien Lanes or Bee Thousand on repeat and again claim lo-fi is stupid. Once he realized the errors of his Safety Dancing loving ways then maybe he can appreciate No Age, Times New Viking or the Thermals.

Just to tie it into the conversation, I don't think it's against rock's toc's for underage kids to enjoy these albums too.

04-02-2011 , 03:29 AM

#113

AdamSchwartz

Shippy McShiperson

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8,521

04-02-2011 , 04:20 AM

#114

NTRT7o

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 110

I believe the sites need to step up the security when it comes to opening an account. Anyone can create a new gmail email and get a transfer from a friend and be playing on a new account in minutes. It should not be that easy.

04-02-2011 , 09:10 AM

#115

inthepub5

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,994

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTRT7o

Lol.

People already have enough trouble getting money online. IDK about you guys but I had to confirm my I'd with stars before I deposited. This isn't the same with all sites. But at the end of the day its not a big deal.

Old people think its terribad because they are out of touch younger people realise that they are no different really at the age of 21 than they were at 17.

Aren't the pokercast always saying it doesn't matter for a kid to go busto, the grown men who blow their wages and put pressure on their families are the ones who need to be gotten rid of.

04-02-2011 , 10:04 AM

#116

Tcchap

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 74

Listening to the cast on saturday morning and got a kick out of boston making an "Elke Sommer" reference so here is the link. and here for images

04-02-2011 , 12:19 PM

#117

swa1018

newbie

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 16

GREAT SHOW GUYS!! im new to the forums. and love your show! keep up the good work!

04-02-2011 , 01:58 PM

#118

NTRT7o

banned

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthepub5

Getting money online is absolutely the easiest thing to do. Just have a friend transfer you as much as you need. If you do not have any poker playing friends, if you live close to a poker room you can always go there and find plenty of people to trade cash for online funds.

04-02-2011 , 02:22 PM

#119

swillis717

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 154

Well you guys did it to me again. When will I learn that when you say a video is bad you really mean it. That Rebecca Black video did to my ears what that Lazy Sundays video did to my eyes .. You cant unhear what you have already heard bro.