Hey brosephs.

I don't want to exacerbate the situation, though you should know that a lot of your assumptions were false.

Here is a picture of a cute puppy.

Daniel has just been 9 tabling some micro (1.75 buck SNG) very impressed by his commitment and willingness to try new things i.e. embracing online and acknowledging the difficulties and differences of online play . Respect

All he was saying is breaking certain parts of the TOS are much different than others. If you jaywalk you broke the law, right? You get a small fine or the cop doesnt give a flying **** because he has more important crimes to worry about. It's the same with underage players. It's against the rules, and if you do it in a really dumb manner and get caught underage, your money is going to get confiscated and you'll get banned until you are 18.

My friend had over $25K confiscated and donated to an underage gambling charity by Stars. I don't think they have a standard operating procedure for this sort of thing. They do it on a case by case basis, but if you are now of age, they will never ban you. My transfer privileges got taken away for 3 weeks, effectively banning me for a 3 week period. I think this punishment is totally reasonable. It would be pure hypocrisy to life-ban anyone who played underage and is now of legal age to play. Both sites sponsor very famous players who started online as young as 15-16.

A reasonable punishment for something like collusion, entering 2+ accounts in the same tournament, softplay, etc. should be life-ban offenses.

I wish the pokercast did a little more research before discussing this matter, but it's not a huge deal. I'm of age now and don't mind people talking about me in any fashion. I would've been up for a PM exchange or interview asking me some important details, though.

+1

Peace and glgl

Nice pooch Gobbo!

I'm pretty sure all the information we mentioned on the show was taken directly from the thread.

1) CompleteDonk said all his backers knew he was underage.
2) You posted confimation that you did back him while he was underage.

If you weren't aware he was underage, that would make CompleteDonk's original claim incorrect.

If we(I) made false assumptions I think its' important we(I) know what those were for the integrity of the show. PM me if there was something erroneous as I'm happy to make a correction/apology on the program as needed.

We certainly don't want to be thought of as TMZ or some rag that just makes **** up.

Don't even think about it!!!!!

He for sure knew I was underage. It just seemed like both of you guys didn't read the entire thread. I posted about the punishment I received, my view on underaga gambling, and how my situation was much different than the average 15-16 year old's. I'm not justifying it in any way, I just thought (mostly Adam) was a bit misinformed. There was also a discussion on the semantics of cheating. Cheating is defined as swindling or defrauding, basically implying that I cheated other players out of money or whatever.

Obviously people like Sorel/JJProdigy were cheaters. I think there should be a different word for thievery like they committed to the poker community, and a more harmless case like mine.

Overall I thought the piece was pretty interesting. I wish you guys went more in to other topics of the well other than the morality parts, because they just spark stupid debates like arguing over politics and religion.

Oscar updates are one of my favourite reasons to open twitter! Keep 'em going!

See my post #39 in this thread. I, and I suspect most poker players, don't feel cheated (I'm sure I never played with you) by an underage player.
The actual problem is more of a real-world one, not a poker-world one: you have (I presume) been committing contract fraud and thereby possibly giving the poker game in general a bad name. What if you hadnt been able to make up the make-up you were due? Guys with ill-fitting suits and guns visit your house? Newspapers carry stories how minor ruined his life aided by online poker players?
A lot of things could have gone wrong here, you coming out with the **** end of the stick in most cases. That would have been bad, for just about everyone.

That's not how backing works. It's not the mafia...

nor are you a samurai

truth

+1 and I've never been a DN fan.

Are they?

A rule is a rule. Just because you think you are smarter then most doesn't mean that you have free passes imo. Like Adam mentioned if the rule breaker is +ev in the "game" you are stealing +ev from the other +ev players by playing.

Do shoplifters not raise prices for us all?

I also think it was a fantastic idea by pokerstars to donate 100% of the funds to a charity. I hope it teaches the kid a lesson in life....

A rule is indeed a rule, but not every rule should carry the same punishment. If you do not agree then you are ignorant. I never said I should get a free pass. I didn't get a free pass. I got banned from PS for 3 weeks.

Stars should not and cannot dictate who is +EV and -EV in the games and adjust the punishment based on that. They should have a standard protocol for all people who were underage and are now of age.

What does a shoplifter have to do with anything? Might be the worst analogy I've ever seen. A shoplifter should be punished less than a rapist. Do you not agree with this??? I don't even understand what you are arguing.

Children mature and excel in different areas at different times (and well some never mature...). The TOS are there to protect players from themselves and from other players, they also endeavour to keep the game as genuine as possible and with the most integrity.

Part of the process of growing up (teenage years) is that you begin to develop the ability to understand abstract concepts. Being able to engage in abstract (as opposed to concrete) thinking correlates with demonstrating sound judgment and good decision making (not referring to while playing poker). Some of these underage players are undoubtedly mature enough and advanced enough to make reasonable decisions in just the same way that some children would be able to drive, handle a credit card or even be left at home alone before others. This can only be assessed on a case by case basis. So the rules and TOS are there to protect the majority (CompleteDonk indicates the underage players are mostly -EV) and that sometimes means the exceptional children will get marginalized, and that is alright by me.

If the underage player can't understand this...well...case and point.

Like I said it is and shouild be against the law for people <18 to play for real money. I've been cleared by the sites now to play, so there's nothing really to discuss. Anyone discussing the morality/ethics of playing underage is really wasting their time. In most cases it's going to be detrimental to the kid to play at a high level at a young age. In my case it was far from.

This is a real life issue CompleteDonk....not just about you. You are one person in a sample size of how many?

And with your comment...does that mean you hold yourself above the law? It is fairly hypocritical of you to turn 18 then agree that it should be against the law.

No, in all cases it will be. And how was your case "far from" detrimental?

Oh ya and the point is: If you play underage yes you are a cheater of the rules at best, and if you are truly a +ev player in the long run you are a cheater of other players and any won monies at the time you were underage and "cheating". It may be a less punishable offense then blatent cheating and stealing but its still cheating. The only differance is one of degree.

Just because Ivey played live underage and got away with it, doesn't change the fact that he cheated the rules of the casino and of the players during the time he played under an alias and was underage....

I think making this personal distracts from the subject. Perhaps rather than being called out as a cheat, CompleteDonk should be thanked for bringing light to the issue?

ya you are right. +1

Thats a damn cute puppy!

And ya, I can't imagine that you knew which is why I added the disclaimer during the show

influencing, maybe not, facilitating and therfore at the time condoning yes.

I agree this is an example of what is reasonably wide spread behaviour (may not be as young as you were) and not personal, the point is not to smash you and your backers but to take the issue that is wider spread than it should be and make sure people understand that this sort of thing, going forward, is not on and take efforts to hold people to account on behaviour inconsistent with what we as a society, community, group, think is appropriate.

Oh and who gives a flying F*** whether its cheating or not. Its against the terms and conditions. its not allowed. - Adam i hope this sums up your ums and r's in this conversation with MJ......

and btw whoever first leaked that jimmy was allegedly the backer of this kid is scummy. whether he knew the kid was underage shouldnt even be talked about its ridiculousness imo. hes a good dude id bet a young barry g kinda sortaish imo wise for young.

any rule broken is unacceptable is the point for sure.