Alan Boston for prez!

No one leaked it. CompleteDonk wrote in post #48 of his own well.

to which Jimmy replied

It was not detrimental to my life. It improved my life vastly, but this is an anomaly and most teenagers lives would be destroyed, and their development hindered by gambling underage.

I'm not interested in discussing semantics or defining the word cheat. It's very clear playing underage is different than entering multi accounts in to the same tournament, or colluding. This is not up for debate, and everyone including the sites agree with me. It IS still against the rules and SHOULD AND IS still a punishable offense. It is simply lesser of a crime than colluding/MA'ing.

A person who has done something in the past can regret it, and say not to do it. Most people who do public speaking are those exact people. They are ex-drug addicts and preach to kids about not doing drugs. In fact, they are the best people to talk to the kids because of how badly they ****ed their life up because of drugs.

Nice windsor did you tie it yourself?

wat

It's against the ToS to curse in the chat box. Are people who do curse cheaters?

I think people overreact to the underage thing. Why 18? Why not 17? Or 19? There is nothing magical that happens to you the second you turn 18.

I had a friends parents that let their kid have a beer at 14. I was so outraged that i went back home and asked my parents for a beer. Beer is for adults but im sure everyone that wants a beer will drink one.

+2, Boston rocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_%28comedy%29

Great show as always guys. Daniel always makes for a great interview. As always Boston is a great guest as well.

Also it was nice to have a recap and discussion of what's going on with poker legislation.

I usually almost always agree with Adam in all debates after listening for the last 100 shows but I was amazed with the discussion about the underage player playing in tournaments. Obviously there is no unfair advantage and obviously there is not an overall EV taken from any tournament by underage players.

Actually it is obviously (third usage is the charm!) the opposite considering that if an underage player is scoring big then he is likely to lose his win whereas if he loses then he will not ever get his buyin back.

Yeah, this felt like a bit of a useless debate; it was pretty clear that you guys were just talking past each other re: what the actual issue was > yes, obv having ANY +EV player in any MTT reduces other ppl's EV. But no, there is nothing about the kid's AGE, per se, that gives him an advantage re in-game play, like MA'ing / ghosting / superusing would.

Playing underage is 100% a 'form of cheating' the rules or laws of any online or live card room, I don't know how anyone could possibly argue otherwise.

Simply put in my eyes, there are rules and a certain criteria for playing cards at our site and if you are found to be in breach of those rules, you should be punished accordingly. Whether that be playing underage/multi accounting/account sharing etc etc.

I usually almost always DISagree with Adam in all debates but he was right this time.

Violating the laws is definetly cheating. But in this case the victim of the violation is the site not the other players. If a player lies about his age, it puts the site at risk as far as credibility and integrity.

I normally tend to favor Mike's side of an argument but in this case it's a push ;yes it is cheating ,but no it's not taking EV from the players.

I want my opponent to have the stress of all the legal obligations that I do.

Which is why I've learned not to play Russian Roulette with 8 year-olds.

Looks Hot Boston
Elke Sommers

you speed or ever drink before you were 18?

your a criminal

Actually I think there is a driving test that he needs to take after that no problem.

Sorry Completedonk, but I think that you have completely overlooked how much you have harmed the "poker community" by playing under aged. I am a somewhat rightwing Republican and I know others who will you story to argue why online poker should never be legalized and frankly they have a point. The sites missed a huge chance to show they had a zero tolerance policy towards it by imposing a harsh punishment. At a minimum I would have said they should have banned you from play for the number of YEARS that you played underage. I have also lost any respect for Jimmy and think he should faced a very large punishment to. Also I believe that both him, your other backers and your father were guilty of and would/should have been able to be charged by the cops with corruption of a minor. BTW I also feel the same way about Annette_15. If you were making porn films underage would you now say "hey, no problem I am now 18"? I don't think so. Of course, Phil "Jerome" Ivey set the bad example by playing live underage.

ps...btw good luck at the tables...this is all talking after the horses have already bolted.

Feels like im walking straight into the bloodbath by saying this, but here we go..

I am underaged myself, i turn 17 in may. My situation is similar but not the same as Brandon's. What we share together tho, is having been backed by reputable and well known people in the poker community.

A big factor we dont have in common is he is now 18 which makes his case a bit different, but i feel like i have to interject anyway.

Playing poker underaged is breaking the T&C, thats just the way it is and regardless of what people think that is always the way it is.
The general apprehension on whether it is in fact CHEATING or not seems to differ quite a bit though.
The problem is, noone can probably find a definite answer to that as opposed to the T&C matter where it is a clear "right answer"
However, cheating per se is a definite term as well.

to defraud; swindle:
to deceive; influence by fraud
to elude;

Im not the right guy to decide wheter playing underaged online poker falls under those criterias or not, but there are some things i feel like everyone should take into account before they make their decision on whether to look down on the whole thing or not, unfortunately but not surprisingly it seems to be divided into two camps. Very anti-underaged or simply 100% cool with it.

First off, there are some assumptions and statements itt i in all honesty find to be quite absurd.
Stealing tournament EV. Hmm. An underaged player at the table...who wins money.. but shouldnt even be there in the first case.
Yeah that might be stealing EV huh? Winning yet shouldnt even sit at the same table as the others..Or maybe getting an unfair advanta...hey, stop!
An underaged player does not get an unfair advantage. Not at all.
He or she plays poker under the exact same premises as everyone else.
Everyone else who isnt a bot, colluding, or multiaccounting.

Despite the first statement being quite reasonable at first glance, that a player who shouldnt be there gains EV he or she shouldnt have, it doesnt really make much sense IMO.

For one, when PS has an ongoing investigation concerning an underaged player, they dont rent Phil Ivey and David Sklansky to calculate the underaged players EV.
There is no way Pokerstars or Fulltilt or whatever will ever make their decision/punishment based on what abilities the player in question hold.

It cant possibly be taken (and obviously isnt to date) into account when investigating a players account.

Lets say we stick to the EV concern while discussing this further.
Assume, of 100 underaged players, 99 of them are totally atrocious.
They donate chips. Should a player who played underaged still be looked down on like a thief who stole a wallet lying on the street (for those who claims he steals EV and is in fact a pure cheater)?

Also, if we once again assume, that god writes itt and say playing underaged is in fact stealing value from your opponents is it comparable to other crimes like cheating by MAing, colluding or playing w a bot?
No way. The amounts of value were talking here are minimal if any.
Should the rest of the field who are 18+ be refunded for their value "taken by another player"?

Should the underaged player who deposits $215 and spews it off every sunday get his money back for giving people value they shouldnt have?

Im not gonna jump right into the discussion on how this affects peoples perception of poker, cause i couldnt be less informed or wellgrounded (read: biased)

I sont really see the problem with it. Its not going to stop happening and its shouldn't be condoned but really this is a load of frantic posturing with no realend result.

Damage to the game? People who hate poker will hate poker anyway. Its common knowledge that under 18s watch internet porn too.

People just need to chill out IMO and stop thinking that 1 thing equals either a) the next poker boom or b) an end to any possible legislation!

They've talked about phil ivey playing in AC on espn ffs and gave the whole no hpme jerome story.

People dont really care

MJ your saying basically that multi accounting is not cheating if it is done by a casual break even player.

There is a very simple solution to the underage and multi accounting problem. Instead of waiting for the first cashout, the sites should verify the identity before the first hand is played.

The sites will never do this, because they know that a significant amount of the rake they take in each day comes from underage and illegal accounts.

To talk about EV, to call it cheating, etc completely misses the point.

Kids are supposed to be kids...

I remember what it was like to be a teen and hardly being able to wait to turn 18 and do all the things 'adults' get to do. I do see that 18 is an arbitrary age and people struggle with why that was as the defining age people mature at. Bright 16 year olds can grasp the concepts of poker, money management, that is not unreasonable; however, a line must be set to protect the many, who in this case are too immature to be able to do the same.

Also, CompleteDonk, to compare it to a reformed drug addict public speaking about the perils of drugs...well that is entirely off base, and in my eyes, belittling and insulting to the struggles they face every day.

Wat? Not at all, multi-accounting is cheating regardless of who it is done by.

What I was saying(which was easy to comprehend) was that whether the underage player is +EV or -EV doesn't change my opinion on the matter at all. I consider it violating the TOS of the poker room, but not cheating the other players in the game itself. How good the kid is doesn't enter the equation for me at all.