Anyone have particular feelings or experience with modern wedges, on the topic of bounce and grinds?

For my skill level I have probably gamed my current wedges about 15 years too long. No, I'm not kidding -- rocking a pair of Nike SV Tour wedges, 52* gap with 10* bounce and a 56* sand wedge with 14* bounce, if I remember the numbers correctly. Anyways not super important other than these things are way past expiry, and I don't remember wedge grinds being such a "thing" until recently.

Going to treat myself to a pair of SM10 Vokeys, pretty locked into going 54* and 58* as my current AW in my iron set is a 50*, and I need better gapping. Have always had issues with club selection between the AW and 52*. Did a fitting with my coach, gaps and spin rates with new wedges look good.


Essentially my conundrum is whether to go 10* bounce, S-grind on both new wedges, or to go something different in the 58*. Option would be a 8* bounce M-grind instead on the 58.

Currently my 56 is what I use greenside and out of greenside bunkers, I do tend to open it up in the bunkers (I use PW for bump and runs). I pretty much never chip with my 52, I only hit 3/4 or full shots with it. But given I am adding loft in my bunker club, it could be argued it negates the need to open it up as much.

What I am not sure about is whether the versatility of the 58* 8M is better than having the same 10S in both wedges. I can see merits for both, or am I just splitting hairs and I'm not good enough for the different grind to matter. FWIW I play in Alberta so generally medium to firm conditions.

Everybody is different, but when I was fitting a typical Vokey setup was 50F, 54S, 58M.

Regardless, I'm a firm believer in having a different grind in your highest lofted wedge as compared to the others because the 50/54 are typically used with a straight face while the 58 is typically used with an open face.

My Ping wedges are 50/10, 55/10, 60/6.

Thanks BO. I went with 54.10S and 58.08M. At the very least give myself some opportunity to see if the grinds make any noticeable difference for me.

Interesting decision for tomorrow. Playing a team best ball game on a course I play regularly. Think we have to count my score on 9 holes.

With my index I'm a 12 from the white tees (6100 yards). I can't reach at least 3 of the par 4s in regulation and have no chance at any of the par 5s. Three of the par 3s will require at least a 4 hybrid.

From the senior tees (5200 yards) I get 6 shots. I can reach all the par 4s, only one is even questionable. I have a chance at reaching a short par 5 and maybe a second one with two perfect shots if it's downwind. Par 3 club choices will all be short irons.

I can choose either one. I'm inclined to go with the whites and the extra shots, since the chances are good that I'll miss the green from the senior tees just as often, the main difference is a longer pitch vs a chip or short pitch. It would probably be more fun, though to play the seniors.

I suggest play the senior tees. The par 3 holes must surely make it worthwhile on their own, if you're taking a 4H out of your hands and putting in short irons. What yardages are they?

It's anecdotal but at my club I lick my chops when the old guys want to tee it further back during our match plays; it's almost never a good choice for them but some of them can't say no to a couple extra strokes.

Had a new experience on the golf course today. Guys I was paired up with had a bluetooth speaker, pretty standard stuff right? Well it was the first time I've ever played with anyone listening to CLASSICAL MUSIC on their speaker. We're not talking basic Bach here, this was full on Violin Concertos and ****.

Golf Channel had old stuff on last night, the 2015 John Deere and I think a feature on Tiger's 2000 season. I wasn't really paying attention and had the sound off, but I saw enough to come to one conclusion: Holy **** were the golf pants worn during those eras awful. I think they were worse than the Sansabelt era and that was pretty terrible.

I was thinking recently that my golf pants had insufficient pleats and they were interfering with my hips

now with extra large snack sack! gets me every time

That poodle is hungrily eying the extra large snack sack.

I think I've asked this before. This is one of our holes and it runs alongside the driving range. The driving range is recently had a update and had a big net to keep people from hitting over it maybe 40 feet high. OB stakes run inside on the hole side.

The problem we are having is if you're in bounds but the net impedes your swing do you get free relief? I would presume yes because this isn't actually the boundary line.

Then another question, Now it doesn't look like it in the picture but say you scuff your shot a little left and the net actually is in the way do you get relief from that.

It come up in a meeting tonight.

If I understand correctly and the net is outside of OB stakes, you wouldn’t get relief from it for stance or swing since it isn’t an obstruction since it isn’t on the course. And you never get “line of play” obstruction relief despite what happens on TV. If you have a big electrical box two feet in front of you right in your line, tough.

Correct. No relief in either situation.

That's a very Bo answer

Same as you can't remove and OB stake, no relief.

A story I don't remember sharing before. U.S. Open qualifier about 10 years ago, I'm scoring some 20 something kid I've not heard of. First hole, par 5, in course OB to the left marked with stakes. Kid hits it towards the OB, unsure if it's in play or not. He heads towards his ball, I head down the fairway. I look over and he appears to have found his ball right next to an OB stake. 30 seconds later I look over and he is over his shot with the OB stake now laying off to the side. He plays and then replaces the stake.

Well ****, it's the very first hole of a 4.5 hour qualifier and I'm about to piss this kid off for the next 17 holes. His drive sucked, his recovery was OK, his third shot sucked well short of the green. He slopped an ugly shot on and 2 putted for a bogey on a fairly simple par 5. I've either gotta slap him with 2 now or let it go. After watching him play the hole I'm 99% sure he has zero chance of qualifying, so I decide to let it go. I know, extremely un-nit like!

He shot 84 not counting the penalty, I made the right choice.

Great story, and very un-nit like! Would have been amazing if the kid had noticed you noticing and went next level and half-ass slopped the hole so you'd ignore it and then shot 68 or something.

How does the Stroke Index for each hole get assigned?

My assumption would be just taking all the scores and them just ranking in order from the average score.

If correct I've gone through the data at my local and it's a bit wrong. For one whilst the tee's are not super different there are some big differences on a few of the holes and the White tee's (Mainly for comps) have the same SI's as the yellows (which are more for general play)

I'm VC at my club and I've been to the captain and mentioned this and he replied, We've tried to get them to change it before but England Golf flat out refused to do it because nothing had really changed at the course.

Here are details in terms of scoring for each hole this is based on around 2500-2800 rounds from all different players and handicaps.

First image is off the whites, 2nd image is the yellows.

Am I missing something? Why would they flat out refuse. I'm sure my club never presented the data to them though.

oh I should add. We only have 2 sets of stroke index's one for the red/ladies tee's and the whites. So whenever you play off the yellows you're playing off the white stroke index's.

happy for BA acing the BO scrutiny test
(unless nit took pity because he thought you would not qualify anyway)

different topic: any trips planned to banon?

Ok, this is probably gonna sound dumb but here goes anyway.

I looked up what the penalty is for hitting a ball in the woods (or any lost ball really). It says "stroke and distance" which means, to me at least, you hit another ball from where you hit the first one, and add a stroke. Is this correct?

However, it seems you can go to where the ball last traveled before it got to the woods, hit from there, and add two strokes. Right?

Now, on our course I've never seen anyone hit from where they last hit the ball if their first one goes into the woods. Well, sometimes on the tee, but I've never seen anyone hit second or third shots a second time. I suspect it is because this is a public course and the etiquette is to keep things moving.

So, I've been adding two strokes every time I go into the woods.

Now, I started playing with my father-in-law who plays three times a week and has for decades. He insists that you can take the shot from where the ball went into the woods and only add one stroke as a penalty. He's pretty adamant about this. (of course, he's pretty adamant about fluffing lies as well)

I googled this and it seems there is something referred to as "casual play" where this is true.

Can someone clear this up? Also, if it is true that "casual play" allows you to only add 1 stroke, do you use "casual play" to establish and maintain a handicap?

There really isn't "casual play" as far as keeping score for an official handicap, etc.

The standard rule for a ball that is lost or out-of-bounds is "stroke and distance" which is exactly as you think, rehit from the same spot, so if your 2nd shot goes in the woods, hitting 4 now from same spot. There is a "model local rule" that courses can adopt that lets a player drop in the edge of the fairway at same depth as where the ball is lost or went OB and add two strokes. So if you hit your 2nd shot into the woods, you would now be hitting 5 from the fairway at same depth it went in. This is to speed up time, it's basically like you went ahead and hit your 4th shot to there instead of re-taking it. This rule technically has to be adopted by a course or competition to use.

It is different if the ball goes into a "penalty area" in which case you have a few options based on what type of penalty area it is (red or yellow). This is generally designated by stakes, but any unmarked waterway (even if it doesn't have water in it) is a "red penalty area" by definition. And lots of courses will put red stakes by wooded areas or define them as "red penalty areas" (or "lateral hazards" if they are using old terminology). In that case, yes, you can drop within 2 clublengths of where your ball entered the red penalty area, no closer to the hole and add 1 stroke.

I would estimate that 90-95% of golfers playing on the weekend are dropping where it went in the woods and adding 1 stroke, even if not staked red or officially designated a red penalty area.

I started playing tourneys a couple years ago and really studied up on the rules. Even though they are rinkydink tourneys, I HATE the feeling of not knowing or being unprepared, and so I really wanted to feel comfortable and confident with the rules. There are some areas I still have to doublecheck though.

And sadly no planned Bandon, have lost all the lotteries to get a spot so far. Do have a trip planned to Gamble Sands/Couer d'Alene next April and going with the Chasing Scratch podcast group to Ireland next July, super pumped!

gamble sands and scarecrow appear to me a wise investment of golf prospecting dollars