From the squat section:

lel

So why the **** doesn't he advocate strengthening the core (which is one of the primary ways to avoid/mitigate back injury anyway)? *******.

You should not mistake my posting the link as advocating his position. In fact the tenor of his post almost comes across as "you're not an athlete, so don't do athlete stuff". Well, au contraire imo.

He has another blog post which has you doing dumb **** to replace these exercises, like pushups instead of bench presses, non-weighted or low-weight dumbell squats done as fast as possible to replace barbell squats, and so forth.

Basically... exercises that would make more sense if you were 50 and wanted to get in "somewhat better shape", maybe, but you didn't want to even lift.

His personal exercise system (linked to within your link) looked pretty awesome too; it's pretty much just marketing doing low impact stuff to old DYELs that are scared any weight that's not covered in plastic -- seems like a pretty smart business plan, since there have to be a ton of those people out there, even if the exercises that he's pushing are kind of dumb.

His PT is ignorant with regards to lifting mechanics. The spotter comments about why not to back squat & bench press tell me that.

That being said, back squatting was one of the last things I was able to do again safely after my back injury. If he's currently having low back problems, he should not back squat. Back squatting puts shear force on the spine, and if he's not very good at stabilizing his core throughout the movement (most people with back issues are not), that makes it a very risky exercise for someone with back issues.

If he's serious about doing everything right, tell your friend to read McGill's book, Low Back Disorders, then after that, read his other book, Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance if he wants to rehab it correctly. For further info, have him read my log beginning ~June 2011.

Do you have any good book/info sources for someone suffering with disc issues in their neck, cha? A workmate is struggling a bit at the moment. Does Low Back Disorders have any helpful info?

The worst thing is that the doctor he went to specializes in sports rehab. So he thought he was going to get someone to help him get his core **** worked out and then show him how to lift safely, but instead he got videos of an old man reverse humping a chair.

How does the deadlift not make this guy's list? His criticism of the squat/bench is loltastic - don't do it because you won't be able to do it properly. Um, what?

I have read that some people should be staying away from dips. I think Cressey is of that opinion for certain people.

Are back extensions and leg raises bad for you like he claims? I've heard this before wrt to back extensions, but not from a source I would consider to be reputable.

I don't round my lumbar when I do back extensions; other than doing that, I'm not really sure how they could possibly be bad for you.

I hope people are actually seeking out doctors for their issues. Cha is great and all, but voodoo bands and lax balls aren't curing slipped discs anytime soon.

The problem with PATIENTS is they fail at doctor selection. If I took an appointment with a sports med doctor and he was a total DYELer who thinks all anyone needs is a few low impact bodyweight exercise, I'd leave his or her office and find a new doctor. People tend to treat all doctors as equal authorities. No doctor is ever wrong or ineffective.

It's a pain in the ass, but you gotta be very proactive with this stuff. Especially if you actually WANT to lift/play sports/of triathlons/etc.

You're just a doctor's customer. Treat them as such.

I have my own neck disc issues I'm dealing with right now. I know of no single source like LBD. The best things he can do is pack the neck at all times (head back & make a double chin), keep the thoracic spine as loose & mobile as possible and dont shrug the shoulders upward when moving any load. ART & adjustments by a very skilled chiropractor help me, as well as a lot of other SMR stuff I've learned over the years. Yugo's SMR thread is a good resource. LBD might have some stuff that would teach him about discs in general I suppose, but there's not much as far as exercises that would apply. Light rowing with the shoulder blades pulled down as far as possible the whole time might be useful.

Unfortunately, that's standard in my experience. Find better providers (much easier said than done) & follow the advice I already posted imo.

Good post. Most doctors are DNELs though. Its hard to find good ones. But you're right - the best solution is to find a good one.

BTW, Rusty, I know you weren't advocating his position, I was just raging at the guy's blog post in general.

Exactly. One of the trainers at my gym basically put me on perma-tilt when I overheard him say that he never trains back squatting because there are so many different mechanical aspects to it that people can **** up. I wanted to get a dictionary to see if there's some new definition of the word "train" that I wasn't aware of.

He's right about there being a lot of aspects of it that people **** up, and most people who hire trainers probably should not do back squats right away, but it should be his job to teach them to squat properly, and many of them should eventually progress to back squats.

When I went through rehab I wasn't lifting so I didn't think too much of it or even ask. The advice I got was all about stretching and improving my core and for the most part I do most of the same core strength exercises he gave me back then.

My actual back doctor lifts and looks like it. The ortho I've been to a few times doesn't lift but his whole customer base is athletes. Both of those guys I found through recommendations from athletes. Like, "man, my wrist has been bothering me". Oh yeah, call this dude, he really helped me last year, etc. When I mentioned to someone that I had a disc blowout a few years back he said "oh, did you go see Dr. Onan" and I was like "yeah" and we almost high fived except I don't do that.

Doctors are almost as bad as trainers when talking to them about fitness. Makes me sick when I see people in the medical profession who are outrageously out of shape. Their sense of fitness doesn't even attempt to embrace what an athlete aspires to. I remember when Mrs. Rhymes went to see a doctor because she was frustrated with her attempts to reach female EL status. The doctor told her, "You look fine to me." Of course he was in his forties, DNEL, hyooge gut. I'm not even getting into the legitimacy or illegitimacy of her frustration. He totally missed that some of us want more than good bloodwork and a forty minute walk twice a week.

I busted my back like 3 weeks before a cycling event I was planning for - really the whole reason I'd been working out all year. I asked the physical therapist if I'd be able to do it and he straight out laughed. That's *almost* the only time I ever got a really straight answer out of anyone in the whole process.

Are you really short or something?

It's tough, because I totally get why complete DYELer patients just figure that the doc and the therapist are experts. 5-6 years ago when I was a complete mess and I saw a PT for a while with back pain, it was a complete joke and waste of time, but I didn't realize it cuz I DEL. After you spend even just a year lifting weights, you have concept of how your body performs, how it responds to stress, how to interpret feedback, etc. And to some extent, you can just tell when a "pro" is FOS on the subject of physical performance.

So now if I seek out a PT for my back, and they have me doing rows with a light elastic attached to a door (without a good explanation as to why), I can promptly dismiss them and start a new search.

It's part of my sad lack of bromance, see the first few days of this thread for more eye-searing details.

Rusty, no wonder you have to ride a bike places. Never leave a bro hanging ffs.

thanks

Good point .. but Cha says the same several times per LC thread.

Basically, what KC said. You're going to the wrong doctor. Of course, finding the right one is easier said than done.

You've got to remember is that for most doctors their goal is to take someone like pre-2012 ytf and turn them into something like what he is now. Of course, few doctors would have been able to do as well as what everyone on H&F piling on YTF accomplished. However, most doctors would have given him the "correct" advice for that (i.e., cut and pretty much do any exercise). This is their bread and butter.

For most doctors the goal is to take sick people and make them well. Taking well people and making them higher performing is not a common goal

For example, taking someone like loco and turning him into whatever the heck he wants to develop into is not really in most doctor's skill sets. He's not sick (at least not physically); he's a perfectly healthy guy that wants to be in even better shape.

Same goes for lifting injuries. If you lift and you get injured, the standard advice is don't lift. For most people rest and discontinuation of the activity will make the pain go away. But if you get injured and want to go back to doing 200kg DLs ASAP, then it's a rare doctor that can help you effectively with that problem.

We all know that with trainers, most are useless, but there do exist those that acutally know their stuff and coach you well. Same is true for doctors. You've just got to find the right one. Not easy, but possible.

Sports medicine docs or docs along those lines are your best bet. Someone who works with athletes. I've only worked with one back when I had some rotator cuff issues. Now, his initial instinct on the issue turned out to be wrong, but it made sense and he quickly used the new data to figure out what was going on. And he def lifted at least at some point in his life, and he was easy to communicate with regarding squatting and benching.

Maybe I'll go back to him with this sciatica thing.