My daughter had an 8-pack while doing gymnastics when she was ~5-6. It was weird. She quit because it was 9-hours a week or something dumb. I said k.

Can't believe I just found out my parents ****ed me out of the NFL bc no 6'9" HGH plan.

Should I make my son 6'10"? Probably not. Think about driving and flying you ****ing monsters. k.

No, no kids on the way. When you have children, you die and live for them. I don't want to die yet.

Are you a fan of the Charlotte hornets? Because making your kid 6'10 is a guaranteed way to get a spot on their roater

There was an interesting discussion in BFI within the last couple of years about the affects of height on long term earning potential and 300k for 2 inches would be a drop in the bucket over a lifetime

I assume you're joking, but I don't get the joke.

Really? Why? Which ones.

No not joking at all. I just misread your post and assumed he stopped training all other lifts and did only squats. . In that case, depending on how he trained to get to that 150kg, he's probably going to gain 2-3lbs of lbm. I can see there being a lot of variance here though depending on how that 150kg was trained for, diet, and genetics. If he was only doing singles or whatever, for instance, I'm sure he'd have built a lot less LBM than if he was doing a bunch of 10s, 12s, or 20s.

I can't speak for Hs cheerleaders, but lots of gym broettes who don't look like they lift are popping clen, t3, anavars and accidental winstrols labeled as anavar. AAS/PEDs are weird for women... they don't need to worry about shutting down natural production of anything. The big thing is masculinization. But if you had accurate gear and only took stuff like primo, anavar, t-bol, and non androgenic stuff, they could get away with it technically with less side effects than a man on those things. Female thyroids are not as resilient as male ones so t3 is pretty dangerous in terms of long term side effects. But most girls just want to get smaller/harder/less fat, so they could probably pop some low dose clen or ephedrine and not have a huge amount of side effects or potential for long term damage.

Once you get bodybuilder big, people want open up to you about what they take, it's pretty astonishing who comes out of the woodwork. People you'd never guess were taking on PEDs are sometimes on impressive huge stacks. It's why it's so hard for me to take loco seriously; I have met plenty of guys on a gram of test/wk, 600 deca/wk, and 100mg/day of anadrol who don't look nearly as good as some of the good nattys of h+f.
.

What I meant that he trained the other lifts, but the programming on those was designed so he stayed at the same 1 rep max. So basically what you said in bolded.

Your guess is about where mine was.

This.

Even when I'm at the Planet Fitness down the street, it happens constantly.

Everyone takes ****, because everyone wants to look better, and people love to talk about it when they feel like they won't be judged for it.

I haven't worked out in several months, and my arms are basically twigs now. It is pretty depressing. But I know basically 1 month of lifting and I will be mostly back to where I was. The beauty of natty lifting.

Well the science disagrees with you Evo. Guys who take 600mg of test per week, gain 12 pounds of muscle. That's doing NOTHING.

And you saying the guys on a gram of T and some other crap look like the jellydickers around here? Lol. They must not even go to the gym.

Any of our boys would turn into Mr Universe on that stack. The facking science says it bro. 12 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks. No facking training.

Thank God for that one study or else these jacked up guys will have us believe all this silly nonsense they believe.

Maybe that was what Evo meant. Put Renton on that stack and in 10 weeks he will look like fakeb and he doesnt when have to go to the gym. Took fakeb 5 years of Natty consistency but it will only take one cycle to get someone there and gym is optional.

Yeah I agree with that, that's about right.

We've been over this many times. Steroids work exactly like training; if you're skinnyfat noob, yes, injecting 600 a week and doing nothing will build muscle. Just like tennis and no weight training will probably build an impressive amount of muscle for the same individual. If you are already a trained individual with a decent amount of LBM, you will lose LBM doing nothing even on 600mg/wk of test.

If you're a trained individual with a lot of lbm who's built a lot of it on high doses of steroids, you can train your ass off and lose small amounts of LBM or stay around the same on 600mg/wk of testosterone (cruise dose for many national level competitive bodybuilders in light heavyweight and beyond classes)

They can say whatever they want about the subjects used in the study, but there were relatively few of them and we can be damn sure that if they are recreational gym goers, they very well be nearly untrained.

I know you're being hyperbolic, but no. Any given Mr. Universe winner, or hell even a contestant, is on a lot more **** than that along with a very rigorous diet and training for probably 10-15 years of dedicated bodybuilding training. These things are not nearly as powerful as you believe.

"The subjects were normal men weighing 90 to 115 percent of their ideal body weights; they were 19 to 40 years of age and had experience with weight lifting. They were recruited through advertisements in local newspapers and community colleges. None had participated in competitive sports in the preceding 12 months. Men who had ever taken anabolic agents or recreational drugs or had had a psychiatric or behavioral disorder were excluded from the study.

Of 50 men who were recruited, 7 dropped out during the control period because of problems with scheduling or compliance. The remaining 43 men were randomly assigned to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise, testosterone with no exercise, placebo plus exercise, and testosterone plus exercise. The study was divided into a 4-week control period, a 10-week treatment period, and a 16-week recovery period. During the four-week control period, the men were asked not to lift any weights or engage in strenuous aerobic exercise.

Of the 43 men, 3 dropped out during the treatment phase: 1 because of problems with compliance, 1 because illicit-drug use was detected by routine drug screening, and 1 because of an automobile accident. Forty men completed the study: 10 in the placebo, no-exercise group; 10 in the testosterone, no-exercise group; 9 in the placebo-plus-exercise group; and 11 in the testosterone-plus-exercise group."

"Had experience with weight lifting" god only knows what that means, these men were not trained or probably even novice level. n=43 for all the men, not just those in the T and no exercise group. If we started with around 11 normal dudes who literally do not even lift or watch their diet and are likely totally sedentary but bench pressed in PE class in the 9th grade a few dozen times and inject them with 600mg/wk of testosterone, yes they will build muscle. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if literal DNELs gained MORE muscle than that and one or two among those 11 could have drastically reduced the average if they were starting from like a 185lb bench press or something.

If you give Eric Helms 600mg/wk of testosterone and have him stop working out for 10 weeks, he will lose muscle. The further along you get, the more stimulus, both in terms of training load and exogenous hormones, you need to continue building muscle.

Wait, Evoken -- you're gonna go out here and make claims that:

A drug proven to:
- promote muscle growth
- reduce muscle generation
- promote recruitment of body fat for fuel
(more? idk?)

Has disproportionate effects on those who have fatter, less muscular bodies than those who have made significant investments into being muscular and lean?

Wow, that's like, some pretty crazy stuff. Seriously though, you'd have to be a kind of world-class moron or troll to preach this stuff outside of that context or like it is surprising.

Well, he keeps using this ridiculous n=10 result to put forth the idea that people who have been actively lifting for years can get better results by quitting lifting and just injecting alone, so somebody has to explain it to him like he's a toddler. I'm sorry if you found it condescending or obvious.

I've also observed that when 50kg women who are rarely exposed to alcohol drink 2 shots of tequila, they are significantly more intoxicated than when 110kg fat dudes with a beer belly who frequently drink the SAME TWO SHOTS! PARADIGM SHIFTING report to follow.

My BIL is on tren/deca and has done tren/mast for years with inconsistent training. He's 5'7" 215lb. He's not lean but not fat, probably would need to cut 20-25lb to be ripped. But that's still pretty crazy lbm. He claims some pretty crazy pre-aas feats though like 300lb overhead press but considering he does cheat rom on every lift I guess that's to be taken with a grain of salt.

As to your hypothetical, I have easy access to the stuff and for some reason I don't have a lot of interest in doing it. I think I'm probably a masochist.

Evo,

My apologies for the easily mistaken tone. I didn't mean to imply that you were being condescending. I meant to imply that loco is an idiot and you are obviously correct and it's embarrassing for us all that you have to explain this to him at all, let alone for the nth time.

Renton,

Yes, that would be the other obvious flaw in his "logic." He seems to believe that every moderately serious recreational lifter (which I think is a fair categorization for basically everyone who has a lifting log here) has the sole goal of being as strong and ripped as possible, and that not using steroids means they are in some form of denial because... Idk, the drugs would make them stronger faster. The concept that someone could have some other set of goals - even while he makes a carve out for people interested in potentially having children soon - like idk, having fun, getting stronger, blowing off steam, being generally healthier or better looking, etc, is somehow impossible to him. Linear progression stalled out on one of your main lifts? You should probably kill yourself if you don't dose, what's the point in living?

I'm not even generally aware of any significant subset of loggers who have hit long periods of stalling out *and* gotten all worked up about it. He uses this argument about people maxing out their genetic potential like it's something that's actually happened to a significant number of loggers. Yes, people could likely make gains faster while using, but everyone knows that and most people here have chosen not to.

Honestly his repetition of the natty lifestyle dilemma nonsense is more nonsequitor, more annoying, and less funny than his protege's rambling about yuppies.

Outed as Thremp's alt account or vice versa? I like it!


rage bait for Evo et al:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...o-fat-shaming/

lol fat acceptance defenders. BUT, BUT, BUT LIZZO CAN PLAY THE FLUTE AND MOVE AROUND SOME FOR 2 HOURS, HOW CAN SHE POSSIBLY BE UNHEALTHY?!?!!?!?!?!???!!

celebrity e-fight drivel.

Plus she's a musician, not a model. Who cares as long as people enjoy her music? Let her indulge in her vices.

Obviously a lot of people care!

Adele just lost 7 stone which may be close to a hundred pounds but nobody really knows

What is citanul talking about? Guy is just going off on random subjects.

The conversation we are having here is that you get jacked as Fack on PEDS. This has been going on for 50 years now and it has completely overshadowed natty training. Renton confirmed my side when he said his buddy is a mass monster who wields 300 overhead and has inconsistent training.

We not only have the science (12 facking pounds with no lifting) but we have seen it around here.

Bdiddy - WTF!!!!! He was facking huge.

Syndrome - First cycle dabbing on a little T, guy goes from 220x2 bench to 220x11!!!! Logged right here and it took a couple of months. WTF!!!!

Country Roads - Guy incline pressed 40 pound dumbbells and was getting massive cannonball debts.

G4S - Raged at 5000 ng/dl and front squatted 600 facking pounds!!!!!! That's front squat.

RealB - guy turned from the marshmallow man to thong ready in one year.


That's the point right there. And yet Evo will have us believe nonsense that some Natty's around here look better than a guy taking a gram of T and God knows what else.

LOL NO.

These guys all get delusional, think it's their lifting or new training or higher intensity that's getting them gains. No man, it's the facking fact that you raging at 5000 ng/dl. You look at bar, you grow. And you most definitely walk around ready to wield a baseball bat boner. Thats what T does man, it gets you huge!!! Look at the science!!

Because so many people are sauced up on the 'Gram, this is a conversation we should be having basically all the time.

Obviuosly my posting is mostly hyperbole but the gist of my H&F life is clear. The realities of Natty training are sobering, but once you see them, they are beautiful.

Have no facking clue what Citanul is talking about. That's what happens when people who don't even exercise interject. Wat.

I couldn't telling you the realities of the Enhanced Life. I have my suspicions but I know they are greatly exagerrated. Evo and the gang can tell you. These guys are all facking huge though, that's my point. If they are not, they must be looking at bar all day past the 10 pounds from the study.