VR,

I agree with you that not everyone has the same standards for attraction; this is something I experience a TON based on my background / what I look for.

But come on, Brad Pitt is higher on any ladder than a crack whore. Within midwestern college kids an in-shape guy > a fat chick. There are existing ladders within social groups that everyone recognizes.

Alright, i was hoping that's what you meant, thanks for the clarification

Haha. It's tough for me to envision the circumstances under which BP and CW are hanging out and socializing, and CW is thinking, "God, he's really cool. If only I weren't a crack whore."

But my point was that I may look at a woman and think she's too good looking for me, but that's flawed thinking because if I think she's so hot then it's what she thinks that matters. And if she's more of a social than a visual creature (as most women are), then my persona and attitude make a difference; maybe even a defining difference.

In other words, if I decline to treat her like she's "above" me any more than I would the "fat chick" then she's less likely to get the feeling that I'm "beneath" her. And if I push her buttons, the way that guys she finds attractive do, she's more likely to find me attractive.

Likewise, if the "fat chick" somehow gets all hot, I might find her attractive even if she acts the same way she did when she was fat.

The assumption is that the girl is either too stupid to judge based on things that actually matter a lot more than behavior or that she is blind and so unable to see those things.

Obviously you don't treat her like she is above you but you also don't treat her or the fat chick like they are below you. Trying to play on people's insecurities can have some short term success with girls who are damaged but it isn't going to work with girls who are actually worth going after.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly where this discussion started.

Sure. (Well maybe not if no one realizes it.)

Some women are instinctively drawn to the bad boy type. Some are drawn to the suit and Mercedes type. But both happen for the same reason. They are indications of independence and control. It's just that different women have become attuned and attracted to different types of signals.

So if my well earned self confidence causes me not to concern myself with other people's approval and to let them come to me if they're interested in knowing me, that's a sign of power and confidence to those attuned to it, but it could just make me invisible to those who aren't.

Sometimes you need to consider the way she thinks and what she's attuned to if for some reason you become interested in having some particular impact on her.

Sound like you're saying women / men have different value systems of attractiveness. I agree with this. Your original point was that there is no 'universal ladder' of attractiveness. I disagree with this in many scenarios.

No, my point is that the feeling of who is 'above' who, in the vast majority of cases, is determined early on, due to accepted social ranking systems. I am pretty drunk right now but can expand on this later if needed.

Why do I continue to have a crush on this girl who is very non-commital and flaky?

Omg learn something for once, Mike.

The harder stuff is to get the more people try to get it.

so zen. i am confused but wait i will think of a tree falling in the woods but no one is there to hear it, is it really falling? okay now i am in bliss

Think of a masturbating panda. Bliss.

Think of capital letters standing amongst non capital letters. Bliss.

Think of sarcasm in response to an answer to an impossible question. Bliss.

Get the bongos out I could keep doing this all day. BLISSSSSSSSSSSSSS



BLISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Part of it could simply be lack of closure. I bet that if you put your cards on the table and she said "No thanks", you'd move on.

Not that you need to do that. No harm in having a useless crush, so long as it doesn't get in the way of functioning in your own best interest.

Plus, the flip side of lack of closure is that it leaves the door open for the future. Here's some zen for ya. If (God forbid) you're being thwarted by projecting a needy vibe or anything along those lines, then things could theoretically turn around at some point, but only if you're able to truly let go and not feel the need for her. Woah.

But don't count on it. Relationships have a way of becoming "defined" by precedent and take on an inertia which resists change. Hence the horror of the dreaded "friend zone".

I think there should be an EDF - General Life Advice Thread.

There is probably something like that on some forum here so it's probably a stupid idea.

I like reading this thread, I think a thread where people can come in and say "this and this happened, this guy is a douche, what's my play...?" would be cool.

Isn't that most of what OOT is? Same for Student Life?

The idea has some merit and it wouldn't be a bad thread I think it would need to be better defined.

I agree it would need better definition. I don't read OOT or SL but I wouldn't really want to start a thread for trivial little day to day things where I can learn from other peoples advice and vice versa.

Dating is pretty funny in that it may be the one thing in life where the harder you try to get something, the less likely you are to succeed.

meh, speak for yourself. I find the number/quality of dates/randos/relationships I get is directly related to the effort I put in.

Desperation is a different issue, but for someone capable of doing well for himself effort is usually the key variable.

I think we all knew what he meant.

More of a tactical question in a standard situation here.

Let's say I went out with a woman probably about four times in as many weeks. We're mid 20's in Chicago. We were both pretty busy off and on, and invited each other out a few times and couldn't make it. The times that we ended up making out, she told me she was tired and getting up early (help me out, is that just chick code for "I'm not having sex with you?")
Overall, she responded mildly whenever I took the initiative, but never really pushed back, so I figured she wasn't showing a huge amount of interest, and I was getting ready to write her off.

After a weekend where I pretty much blew her off, I got a text saying, "How come we never see each other on the weekends? We must be important people." (Every weekend before that one, one of us was out of town). What's my play here? I feel like standard would be not to acknowledge, but this is probably a common enough I feel like I can do better.

I played it pretty weak, by the way... I texted her back the next day, "I could ask you the same question." I invited her out with some friends the next week and got an "I would love to, but I'm doing blah blah blah that night"

Sounds like she was asking you to organise a date for the next weekend. If you want to see her and you're both usually quite busy at weekends, then you'll need to do it further in advance than the day of or before you want to see her (which it sounds like is what you did)

I'm not totally sure if I got it right, but you said you've gone out with this girl a few times casually and the dates have usually ended in you guys kissing a bit, but not going further? Well, if that's the case and the rest of the story is as you said, you are still doing alright for sure. She is definitely interested, but may be the type who doesn't want to jump into these things quickly (doesn't want to get played, just got out of a relationship etc.).

So far, from what it sounds, everything has been super casual for the two of you. From my limited information, it sounds like she wants something at least a little bit serious. Do you want this as well? If you're just looking for a casual thing, you might be a little hard pressed here. Otherwise, I think you should giver her a call (not text!) asking her out for a real date. Dinner at a decent place might be a good idea provided you guys are comfortable enough to have a good conversation over a long meal. Her response to this invitation should be a good indicator whether or not you should continue to put in an effort.

do you lurk student life

it has to have the highest lurker/poster ratio on 2p2 lol

No. Not anymore. When I first joined I use to read it but then after two or three weeks I realized that I had nothing in common with students anymore. Getting old sucks.

OK I met these two girls at the bar around a month ago who are best friends. I had real good chemistry with one but she had a boyfriend. Got the other ones number went on a few dates and hung out casually a few times. We messed around but never had sex. Quit talking to her after a couple of weeks due to lack of any real chemistry.

The girl I had good chemistry with broke up with her boyfriend three weeks ago. Last Wednesday I randomly run into her at a bar. We hit it off lots of sexual tension the whole time. She ends up coming back to my house and we have sex. She asks me not to tell anybody since her friend is the jealous type.

Friday night I text her that I want to meet up. We meet at a bar and she gives me a bit of crap for not getting in touch with her the last few days and ignoring her at a concert we were both earlier that night. I just explain I wasn't sure of the situation because of her friend. We hang out get along really well she ends up coming home with me again. Before this though she has to have a twenty minute talk with the friend about what was going on. Friend gives her the OK but does not look pleased. We go out for breakfast in the morning conversation and everything is great.

The next night I have to work till 1:30 am. I text her and ask her if she wants to hang out when I got off work. She says she is going to hang out with her friend but will text me if she wants to get together after. She never texts me back. Its now been two days and I haven't heard from her.

I want to see her again and based on what I know of her so far would be interested in her more seriously then just having a sexual relationship. She seems really cool and I am very attracted to her. How best to proceed? She is 23 I am 26.

^

don't be the creepy guy who constantly texts her. Give her space and let her come to you. You've already done what she asked