can you explain the reason why? interested to hear it since we are ip, deep, and can use both of those to our advantage on later streets.

But if we call and hit, can u honestly see villain paying us off with sets/straights/2pair?

Aren't I already getting basically good enough direct odds to call?

that is such terrible reasoning

Well that depends, if you have villain on such a strong range that u choose not to get it in otf, then you probably dont have direct odds, as u dont have as many clean outs.

Look at the other sides of things. What hands will he fold that have equity against us. Combine that with the times he calls with a draw and we pick it up with a shove on the turn. Considering only what hands he stacks off with is pretty poor reasoning in this hand.

I think I'm merely a decent player, not great by a long shot, and I'm even worse at backing my strategy with arguments. My instinct/intuition though tells me that I like the 3bet flop line.

what are you talking about???

even vs a range of only 99/TJs we have more than enough equity to flat on the flop. We only need 25% based on pot and betsizing, vs 99/JTs we have 40%.

you expect villain to have a check raise/flat a 3 bet range here?

Getting it in on the flop is pretty horrific. You're cbetting into two players on a flop which smashes most calling ranges. You're looking at sets, straights, combo draws and hardly ever air. You're just getting in 180bbs with 40% against a reasonable range.

Is this a level? We will be facing another bet on the turn, lol and we do not make our hand 40% of the time on the turn vs a range of 99/TJ. Doesnt this just completely back up the idea of shoving? Ur taking our pot equity if the hand went to showdown, not our equity going into another turn bet.

villain isnt getting it in everytime we 4bet flop. im not a math guy but how much fold equity do we need to make it ev+ vs a reasonable range?

also wouldnt he just call a flop 4bet with some hands like bottom set or pair + sd that we can get him off of sometimes on turn?

I would sat 3-bet-calling isn't that bad we have like 42 % vs 88-99, JTs and 65s and we need him to fold only 25% to break even, calling is a good option but you need to know what to do on other streets. I mean if you fear hard decisions than 3-bet makes your life easier

theres no horrific situation with that hand on that flop

um...... we have position so it shouldnt be hard for us to see both cards fairly easy. Anyway, we have 26% equity vs 99/JTs assuming we only have 1 card to see, so we still have enough equity. Any other gems? I'm looking for some concrete reasoning for why 3 betting the flop has any merit.

Board: 7h 8h 9c 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.947% 25.38% 00.57% 134 3.00 { KhTh }
Hand 1: 74.053% 73.48% 00.57% 388 3.00 { 99-88, AhJh, Ah6h, JTs, 6h5h }

thats kind of horrific. Not sure about my range, you guys must be assuming he gets it in a lot wider?

Im looking for some concrete reasoning why u insisted we had 40% equity going into the turn? Lols.

Nah dude, you got the turn in there as well. Anyway calling is clearly better than folding so why don't we do that rather than stacking off in a spot where we have very little fold equity.

oh yea, 37% equity without the turn.

Also, im not(and dont think anyone else is) saying that 3 bet getting it in here isn't profitable, just don't think its better than flatting and taking it from there.

Lol, wow.

i mean, good trolling

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...29&postcount=1

find any 10nl action?

Dont make an ass out of yourself and i wouldnt hav said a word! Lol. [ ] 40% equity.

So what is your Flop 3bet range here? 0 draws, only JT?

Great point. It's funny how ppl think they're getting payed off by worse if they hit, but don't think worse calls the River.

What do you expect him to do with NFD/99/88 that he decided to C/R Flop with after we 3bet it?

First of all I never propositioned you for a bet. It's a figure of speech to say "I'd bet x y and z"... It just means I'd feel confident that..... (and clearly can sometimes still be wrong)

It was a stupid idea actually because if you had no idea who that dude was you would probably accept it regardless. Clearly I had no idea that you have been crushing HS HU games, and jude is pretty well known to be one of the best players who posts in these threads.

No I'm not a shortstacker or a bumhunter. I still disagree with a lot of advice you've given, and you still seem to not understand the difference between playing a balanced strategy vs an exploitative one, and when one can be more useful than the other. You won't see me making any more kind of statements like the one you flipped out on me for.

you expect him to flat these hands to a 3 bet? seems awful

the 9h is the nut worst card in the deck that improves us