Unless that school has a particularly brutal curve, yes.

Does she still want to be a lawyer? Or did she go to get well paid to look good in a business suit?

Tbh I'm not really sure, but her motivation now seems to be "proving everyone that she can succeed in law school." Its a real ****ty situation for her, I'm sure.

Yea, she should leave. I had a friend that was in a similar situation and decided law school wasn't for him. Took him a little bit longer than it should because he came back for fall 2L year, stayed for like half the semester before quitting and then had to pay back that semester's loan right away.

I'm also pretty sure one of my good friends here is going to fail out at some point before graduation, if he didn't get there already in summer school this summer. One more C or below and he is done. Sucks obv, but he knew he was racking up the bad grades and never at one point considered, "Hey, maybe I should work harder." He seemed to think instead it was a good idea to rush through all his exams so that he could be the first one done in every class this last year. He's pretty much just a lost cause at this point that smokes waaay too much. I hope he pulls it together because he's smart enough to make the grades in 3L to avoid this and I genuinely like him, but change has to come from within and whatnot and if summer school is any indication he hasn't. Enjoy the 100k in loans with no degree to show for it buddy, it's all your fault.

On the class I failed I was the last one out of the exam room while smirking about all the extra points I had 'discovered' by checking all my answers. It was 100% MCs. Actually the ones I got wrong were the 'obvious' ones that I didn't mark to check.

I should drop out according to this thread but prestige was not the goal. I'm not annoyed that I can't work in BIG law, I'm upset about having to pay tuition twice what it should be so the people who are getting bood jobs can go to school for free.

Hopefully I don't offend anyone with this post, but unless you are at one of those T3s/T4s with absurdly hard curves, I don't really see how you can fail a law school class. I honestly feel like it's near impossible if you have even a remote clue about the subject matter.

Now, if you go to one of those schools that has hard curves where profs do routinely fail people, this doesn't apply to you so please don't get offended. But like at GULC, for example, where we have a 3.3 curve and Fs are rarer than unicorns, I don't see what you can do to get an F. I mean if you just don't show up to the final, you get a W and are automatically withdrawn. You don't even get an F then.

Boston College uses the same curve as Georgetown. C's will get you a meeting with an academic dean to discuss your future.

Isn't it funny that the most prestigious schools (according to US News & World Report) are the ones that refuse to burden their students with the pressure of traditional grades? You would think that if you were smart and/or fortunate enough to get into a top school, you could handle a little healthy competition...

gulc has been trying to switch over to that system but the faculty has been resisting.

i guess it makes sense. . .imagine being an employer at OCI having to pick between 600 kids with a "P" average. lol

0. Do all the class reading so the ego-maniac Prof never gets the satisfaction of nailing you. Prof figures this out and refuses to call on your raised hand, you stop raising it.

1. Defend Prof the day he has a meltdown about students not showing up to his optional movie screening. Remainder of classes spent hearing memories about what a great lawyer he was.

2. Get last two exam days on Mon and Tues at 2pm and an email explaining why they don't violate the 24 hour rule despite being 21 hours apart.

3. Spend all available time writing a paper and studying for Monday's exam because everyone knows MC are easy but essays are impossible.

4. Run bad in coin flips with horribly worded questions.

5. Get called into meeting with Prof law school Atrium. Discover

5a. that about 3 questions were changed but it doesn't help you.
5b. You got 3 out of 5 class participation points because the 2nd most talkative guy in the class didn't volunteer enough.
5c. End exactly one point below a C-, aka a D.

the lowest i ever scored on an exam was a B- and i literally had about 4-6 hours of studying under my belt. didn't attend one class, buy the textbook, etc. just downloaded an outline off the internet the night before and gave it my best shot. in all fairness, a B- at GULC is probably more like a D at a lower ranked school.


i also had an A- lowered to a C for not attending class once, but i don't count that because it's BS

luckily, these didnt happen 1L year.

Our evidence prof supposedly gave out a slew of Ds. It was especially shocking since it was a third year course in a four year program and everyone thought the curve would be lighter by then.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a top 10% student or even close myself. I'm not bashing him for his poor grades but his general blase attitude about the graduate program he chose to attend. Also, in his defense, his method actually served him quite well in the one class we had where the test was 100% MC. He actually finished way above average in that class. However, when you have to write 3 or 4 essays of varying length on a test, this is just simply not something you can bang out in an hour or an hour and a half even having complete knowledge of the subject.

Also, the general tone of the thread would have been "diddy, drop out" as well after 1L if I came in here, talked about my grades and expressed my indecision. However, I'll absolutely graduate and my grades have went up every semester I've been in school, so I'll stick it out.

I got Cs out the ass in 1L, but I hated it and never went to class or read, so it was a pretty easy decision to drop.

A big part of why "lower" schools do this is because like 75% of the class is on merit based scholarships that they only get to keep if they are in top 50% of the class. It helps to attract people with better "numbers" to their school and pops the rankings + I believe they come out ahead on straight cash homey by doing this too.

I knocked out a C and a D my last semester through seriously not caring. Pretty sweet. Like not answering all the questions level not caring. Oh well.

My school curved at a 2.7, too. I hadn't gotten anything below a B- before that.

Some curves get harder as the bottom end drops off.

I took almost a whole semester pass fail and was legitimately worried about some of my classes.

OCI lists just released.

28 scheduled interviews, 8 on the first day. Jesus.

idk wats standard for Penn but that sounds very good to me, congrats.

if u go 0 for 28 then, well, u have bigger problems than being unemployed. grats on biglaw (if u want it).

I believe it's like 7-8 above average for Penn. My system was basically entirely about getting more interviews, so I'm pretty happy with it.

yeah i took the same route a couple years back. i ended up with 18 via the system. didn't meet another person with more than 13. plus i snagged some more through hustling, which i would still suggest if you got shutout by a firm that interests u.

a bit early for this advice, but here goes: EXPLOIT THE **** out of your callbacks! my first few, i'd only bill the firm the bare essentials, like hotel and travel. by the end, i was billing room service, bar tabs, etc.

funny story: i met up with the girl i was dating after my last callback. she's in my hotel room and i'm in the shower getting ready. the girl, not realizing i'm not paying for the room, takes out an expensive bottle of wine from the minibar. it was like $150. obv, it got charged to the room. firm reimbursed it, no questions asked. so enjoy urself.

If I was a full-time student and some broad pulled a $150 bottle of wine from the mini bar thinking I was going to pay for it, she'd have gotten slapped.

A few admissions questions for you guys. I can really only go to one school, L&C. I've been told that getting over a 170 LSAT guarantees you a near free ride there, but my goal is to score as high as possible to make it as likely as possible. The biggest problem with this is that my wife has a four-year maximum visiting professorship so we will 99% be leaving Portland and 90% leaving the Northwest when I finish law school.

Started TestMasters on Monday, did so well on the diagnostic that I a) think I am a fool for taking the class and b) am in the middle of HYS admissions statistics.

1) Assuming I score as well on the actual LSAT as I did on the first diagnostic, would I be incredibly stupid to L&C when I could perhaps wait a year or two and attend somewhere else? (I'll already be at least 32 when law school starts.)

2) My undergraduate GPA will be dinged by a full point according to LSAC because I failed a course but took it the next semester and got an A. LSAC counts both grades. However, the reason I failed the course is because I am entirely stupid and missed the withdrawal period. I'll spare you the embarrassing stupid details, but at the end of the semester when I realized I hadn't withdrawn, the professor, who is a good friend of mine, offered me an incomplete but I said no since I actually had to take the class and she wasn't teaching it next term and took the failing grade. My professor will vouch for me in this regard, that I never intended to take the class that term, and considering the entire rest of my transcript is almost entirely 'A's, is it worth it for me to write a letter to my undergraduate institution explaining that the situation was really my own clerical error and nothing else? Comments about how stupid I am for not taking an incomplete unwelcome.

3) I have two years of graduate school with no degree and a poor academic record because all of the incompletes I got for my last term have turned to 'F's. I'd like to get away without submitting this transcript, but think that's foolish because it is a) unethical and b) won't matter much to law schools (except in my case, it should because my undergraduate institution was weak and my graduate school strong and I ended up dropping out). So I guess I can't get away with leaving this out because of potential bar issues down the road, please confirm this for me.

Thanks for any help/opinions.

I wouldn't extrapolate too much from practice tests. I was continuously banging out 179s and 180s under actual timed test conditions in the comfort and security of my own home. Did much worse when I actually took the test.

Also, submit all of your transcripts. In general, in anything related to the legal field, it seems like not disclosing when you have to, is much much worse than the effects of voluntarily disclosing something bad. Sometimes you will get ****ed either way, but if you don't submit your graduate work it will come back to catch you. Most likely on bar admission stuff, so you were correct about this. Read too many cases last year in PR about people losing bar admission for inaccuracies on their original law school applications, to advise you to to do anything other than submit it.

About L&C, I don't know anything. I looked at it because I was contemplating a move to Oregon at one point, but by the time I got around to actually applying that was a dream that had flown the coop.

I also don't understand what you mean in 2). I don't see how averaging the grades would effect your GPA by a point. It's pretty likely that your undergrad did the same thing in computing your GPA. I also failed a class as an undergrad, but never retook it and it didn't really effect me in the admission process other than lower my GPA. Wasn't real concerned because it was an advanced math proof writing class, which has no bearing on anything even remotely connected to the law.

(1) what diddy said. don't get complacent with ur high score bc taking the real thing under (more) stressful conditions will have an effect, even if its just a small one.

fwiw, i also pwned my first diagnostic. dropped out of the testmasters program. banged out 178-180s all the time while at home but i NEVER took a practice exam with a 5th (experimental) section (except for the one or two TM offered). when i took the real thing, i had a perfect score through 4 sections and got like 5 wrong on the last section and only got a 177. i was fatigued bc i took my preparation too lightly. don't let that happen to u.

(2) disclose everything!!!! if u dont, ur state's bar will pwn u during ur character and fitness examination.

what's ur gpa, including all the Fs and stuff? sadly, nothing will change ur gpa from a 3.0 to a 3.9 bc all schools care about is what they report to US News. if u have a good excuse u can probably slide in the door at a lower t14 but HYS is completely out of the picture unless u got a 3.8 or whatever.

the only way ur gonna get out of this is if u can get ur UG institution to drop those grades from ut transcript. otherwise, u def gotta disclose.