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Werewolf LC Thread Werewolf LC Thread

09-26-2013 , 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat
seems legit
oh felix, dont throw stones about posting now.. we've all seen your posting the last few days
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09-26-2013 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy
More optimal is being 33%, 33, 33

Bus partners
Ignore partners
Defend partners

Either within a single game, or spread across several games (optimal)

That way you cannot be read based on meta. Flimsy meta anyway.
Does this lead to maximum win rate though?

Theory: it doesn't.

The reason it doesn't is because you don't play perfectly as a villager.

Because you don't play perfectly as a villager, you have latitude to make "mistakes" as a wolf. Lynching one villager or defending one wolf is not certain to get you lynched (in any role, or else wolves would always win by way of selecting from the villagers who mislynched using their superior voting power).

Because you have "plausible deniability", as it were, you should use it to make more "mistakes" when you're a wolf.

I think I'm paraphrasing soah from his advanced wolf strategy post: "a wolf should ideally look like he's having a bad villager game".

Unless you're one of a very, very select few, you also have bad villager games as a villager. So you can't be identified as a wolf purely by virtue of having a bad game.

In the end your (Defend Partners) and (Ignore Partners) should be much higher than 33%, and your (Bus Partners) should be much lower than 33%, for any selection of random players.
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09-26-2013 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I'm saying a villager shouldn't try to be hard to read

how is that horrific?

tell me how being hard to read helps you win as a villager
Being hard to read helps you as a player.
Being easy to read helps you as a villager and means you're dead weight when you are a wolf.

I prefer the former over the latter.

Also being hard to read adds the enjoyment of having to deflect wagons that come your way. You miss out all that fun if you are always an obvious villager
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09-26-2013 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimHalpert
You haven't really enjoyed a wolf win until you win a game by bombarding villager after villager while the entire wolf team hard defends each other. The village butthurt in post game after those wins are the most satisfying aspects of wolfing.

See: Time Travel Mash (sometimes even the mod is pissed off that the village didn't lynch you guys!)
I've always thought that a wolf team in a sufficiently small game would absolutely freaking pleasure cruise to a win purely by voting as a bloc and making up sufficiently good arguments for their vote.

It would have to be well planned and executed, but it shouldn't be that difficult.

I actually think that in the current environment villagers would tinfoil themselves well past the obvious conclusion.
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09-26-2013 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
oh felix, dont throw stones about posting now.. we've all seen your posting the last few days
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09-26-2013 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
this

I don't have to give up anything at all from my villager game to be considered unreadable by almost everyone
You don't seem to try or post though.
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09-26-2013 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
Being hard to read helps you as a player.
Being easy to read helps you as a villager and means you're dead weight when you are a wolf.

I prefer the former over the latter.

Also being hard to read adds the enjoyment of having to deflect wagons that come your way. You miss out all that fun if you are always an obvious villager
being hard to read should be due to your wolf game

you shouldn't do anything as a villager to make it hard for people to read you

how can you possibly argue with this?
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09-26-2013 , 03:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilltown
You don't seem to try or post though.
liar
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09-26-2013 , 03:53 AM
I don't think it's a good idea to have a plan to bus or not before the game. You need to react and play correctly in real time. If you're just bussing for the hell of it there's no chance you are helping. If you are calling teammates out who villagers think are villagers you are basically teddying the game. Interacting with other wolves isn't hard
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09-26-2013 , 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
being hard to read should be due to your wolf game

you shouldn't do anything as a villager to make it hard for people to read you

how can you possibly argue with this?
I am not arguing with that. If I am a villager I try to be an obvious villager. If I am a wolf I try to be an obvious villager too.

It seemed to me that you were defending players that are obvious villagers only when they are villagers, so that they can be good (helpful for their team) in 75% of their games.
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09-26-2013 , 03:54 AM
it's not a coincidence that the smart people are making good posts and the stupid people are making stupid posts itt
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09-26-2013 , 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDynamite
Of course, a lot of people don't want to be bussed. The wolf I bussed on day1 (vaya) was pretty upset about it (and he was right, because he wasn't doing bad at all). Anarchist was also upset about getting bussed on day2 (but Annie had to die, no doubt about it).

I'm always going to have a miserable time if I rand wolf in a team with someone like TheDean1, VarianceMinefield or CalledDownLight.
On the flipside, if I have to work with someone who shares my philosophy towards wolfin g (like No Lynches in this game) we're going to have fun.

I listened to a no-bus request during my last game, not going to do it anymore.

I am perfectly fine trying to mislynch villagers, but I do it with more confidence if I have some credit to spend.
if we ever end up on a wolf team together, wolf chat will be "fun"

I might set an alarm for the middle of the night just to cajole you into playing for the team rather than for your own survival.

...but really, dude, next time you have a wolf game, challenge yourself as a personal challenge to attack villagers and defend wolves. I can do it...

FURTHER WWDB THING
UncleDynamite does not show up when I search the database

...I was going to say... and I've played X more games than you and I still suck at WW. If I can do it, you can do it!
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09-26-2013 , 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
I am not arguing with that. If I am a villager I try to be an obvious villager. If I am a wolf I try to be an obvious villager too.

It seemed to me that you were defending players that are obvious villagers only when they are villagers, so that they can be good in 75% of their games.
it's not my fault it seemed that way to you
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09-26-2013 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
being hard to read should be due to your wolf game

you shouldn't do anything as a villager to make it hard for people to read you

how can you possibly argue with this?
maybe being hard to read is more of a natural quality?

or rather maybe

assume Gabe's a RPG character and he LEVELS UP!!! and can put points into "various mad skillz" or "easy to read", he'd rather put the points into "various mad skillz"

and points into "easy to read" may disappear

obviously the perfect player is easy to read: he is an incredibly obvious villager in every game
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09-26-2013 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
liar
Then why is it they call you "The Legend of the Docks"?
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09-26-2013 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
it's not a coincidence that the smart people are making good posts and the stupid people are making stupid posts itt
my stupid posts are long

long posts are smart

my range is perfectly balanced
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09-26-2013 , 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix the Cat
UncleDynamite does not show up when I search the database
even the DB doesn't take him seriously
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09-26-2013 , 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
it's not my fault it seemed that way to you
You are wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
being hard to read hurts you in ~ 3/4 of your games and helps you in ~ 1/4 of your games

seems pretty stupid
You wrote that.

You are saying being hard to read seems stupid ==> being easy to read seems smart ==> being easy to read equals dying early as a wolf ==> makes you quite useless in 25% of your games

Please point out my logic fail
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09-26-2013 , 04:04 AM
^^
sick burn
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09-26-2013 , 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
I don't think it's a good idea to have a plan to bus or not before the game.
I think the wolf team gains more equity if they do plan the bus (not before the game but the night before, or given 24 hour wolf chat approx. 12.4 minutes before) and they ensure that their late game wolves - who they have already identified by analysis of the game - get maximum credit.

If you bus and your wolfy-as-**** soon-to-be-lynched wolves get credit and your late-game wolves jump on, it's a crappy bus.

If you bus and there's no coherent plan and wolves don't know how to react and are FROZEN it's a crappy bus.

etc.

Quote:
You need to react and play correctly in real time.
Massive caveat that "correctly" needs to be "correctly for the wolf team" because seemingly 95% of wolves interpret that as "correctly as I would play it as a villager except I have perfect information so push ALL THE WOLVES" (slight exaggeration).

Quote:
If you're just bussing for the hell of it there's no chance you are helping. If you are calling teammates out who villagers think are villagers you are basically teddying the game. Interacting with other wolves isn't hard
This is all 100% spot on and I would enjoy wolfing with vix because he has a correctly wolfy perspective.
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09-26-2013 , 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
even the DB doesn't take him seriously
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09-26-2013 , 04:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilltown
Then why is it they call you "The Legend of the Docks"?
why do you call yourself "they"?
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09-26-2013 , 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
You are wrong


You wrote that.

You are saying being hard to read seems stupid ==> being easy to read seems smart ==> being easy to read equals dying early as a wolf ==> makes you quite useless in 25% of your games

Please point out my logic fail
you're assuming you have to either always try to be hard to read or always try to be easy to read, instead of what you should obviously do which is try to be hard to read when you're a wolf and try to be easy to read when you're a villager
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09-26-2013 , 04:12 AM
What does "you are playing different" mean?

Other than it's a different game.

Why do people keep telling me that as if it means anything?
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09-26-2013 , 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vixticator
What does "you are playing different" mean?

Other than it's a different game.

Why do people keep telling me that as if it means anything?
they want you to make the same posts in every game
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