Im not a wolf

You are

This was my response to the whole "Timon didn't like Jim's case yet still voted for luckay".

I wasn't saying you were. I was saying that you calling me out for lack of content is all sorts of lol because you've done nothing before today in this game.

Ok so...?

I'm reading the thread from the beginning, looking for some interaction or reads with the known wolves.

This jumped at me:
Telco's first reads post doesn't have either luckay or SIU in it. Although he then mentions Luckay just entering so it's not surprising then that he wasn't in the list.

OK, he notices Luckay and says he's apparently mental, but no mention of him being villagery or wolfy. I mention this because he is very emphatic about him being a villager.

Look at the bolded. No reason why Luckay is a villager, just more pushing of Jim.

Then he unvotes because of Jim's latests posts. Still reiterating his luckay=villa read.

And then he votes Tappo, which he didn't mention at all before. Why not mets, who he put on his wolf list? Just very inconsistent.

Looking at this list, I highly doubt that anyone in the red/orange category is a wolf. Mets explained how he was setting himself up in case he had to bus Luckay, but I doubt he'd have the other wolf in the same category (or in red). Having anarchist in the orange category just above luckay was convenient because Annie had early votes and conceivably could be a good CFD target.

I know these are reads from two villagers with incomplete information, but both of them having Hardcore as a wolf is not good for him.

I think Hardcore or Anarchist mentioned this, but this post is indeed very villagery.

He then made a post about me looking bad if Luckay flips wolf, which is consistent with this previous post. Like, he's pointing out that no one should get credit for late luckay votes and given that SIU votes luckay late, it is something that Telco wouldn't do as a wolf because he would be discrediting his wolfbro for bussing.

Another good Telco post. I'm starting to turn on him, he sounds more and more like a villager around eod1.

Gotta run now. I'll be back either after drinks tonight or tomorrow if I end up getting too drunk.

Hardcore

I like what Timon's posted here and I'm confident saying he should basically never be voted

Telco did say, "However i dont feel as confident in my mets wolf read anymore," in an earlier post you quoted. I thought Mets got more villagery in the 200-350 post range, so I don't blame Telco for apparently seeing it as well.

I've gone through Telc's posts and also read a few of his posts in the Marvel vs. DC game and I'm comfortable calling him a villager

I only quoted a few things here because I'm lazy and also I think the totality of reading Telc is more important than nitpicking everything he says in detail. So, like, if you're unsure about him just read his progression and we should be dandy.

What I wanted to talk about here was wolf team composition. Like, if Telc is a wolf then he's coming into the thread, Luckay has some heat, SIU has some heat, Telc probably feels some burden on his shoulders. But we don't really see that in these posts.

And I don't mean tone, his tone is good but what I mean here is who he's talking about and how he's talking about them. His first reads list has no wolves in it while also pushing two really vocal villagers, later on he's strongly calling luckay a villager and really hurting himself down the track unless he thinks he can singlehandedly stop a wolfbro being lynched (I doubt he does).

And the way he talks *to* Jim, I don't think that's how a wolf, particularly Telcowolf talks to a villager when he knows he probably need to stay on people's good side.

I quickly check the marvel vs. dc game where he was a wolf too, and his wolf cases even when bussing were less natural and aggressive. In this game it looks like he's pushing Jim and trying to wagon him/get him lynched, in that game he was just explaining his reads and seemed willing to pretty much sit back and wait for somebody else to take the reins.

So yeah, in terms of tone/construction of those posts, as well as the overall body of work (check it yourself, he's only posted 35 times) I'm happy to call Telc a villager

I haven't seen a votecount in a while but iirc Telc at least has his vote on Tappo, maybe others

Anyway I think Tappo is a villager just based on how yesterday progressed

I again suggest looking for yourself because it isn't something I can super easily explain. Basically though the wolves needed a mislynch about as badly as they'll ever need one yesterday, the way the tappo wagon formed in conjunction with the SIU one is very much w/v imo.

Eg. this votecount where Tappo is one away from Maj

SIU is voting for Tappo.

Tappo isn't voting for SIU, if SIU was voting for Tappo I definitely expect Tappo to reciprocate as a wolf. Tappo and I were the last two wolves at f11 in a 17er once and our entire gameplan was to push each other but get villagers lynched. I'm sure he and SIU would have been trying something similar to the point where Tappo wouldn't be trying to get me lynched yesterday.

So yeah, Tappo is a bad vote imo. I think Hardcore ends the game a lot, and his posts towards my drunken self yesterday seemed akin to a concession.

And this is just a theoretical point: although wolves needed a mislynch, I don't think a wolf outs themselves to maj Tappo (eg someone off wagon like LKJ, he would be the endgame wolf obviously and so can't bring suspicion on himself by majjing a villager imo)

I didn't notice that, but you pointing out all these details makes me feel pretty good about your role. You've done it in at least one more spot with me and I haven't checked if you've done it with others, but correcting people like this while still making your own reads and work tells me that you have to be a villager.

Good points about Telco, binkles. As I said before leaving the thread earlier, I had started to turn my opinion about Telco because of his posts towards eod1. I thought he was being wolfy on d2 because of some selective quoting of my posts but I can see how him as a villager can get a wolf read on me and the pick the posts that looked worse for me while ignoring those that look good. I'll point those posts out when I get to them in my reread.

Hardcore, maybe half joking half serious, has said that he should be cleared for this, the first post on d2. Let's decompose this post and see if it makes sense.

First, admission that he was wrong on d1 wrt Luckay, so far so good.

OK, so he said he was wrong, and to make up for that he promises to do a lot of work and find other wolves. Perfect.

Whoa! so he was wrong on d1, he said he needs to do a lot of work, yet he votes his d1 vote right away without saying anything else? The contradicts his whole post.

I would expect him to at least say "OK I was wrong about Luckay and I need to do a lot of work but SSIU is still a wolf because ABC". Instead he just votes him and it looks like he was just trying to get some credit in case SIU got lynched as he realized he was going to get a lot of heat on d2.

Globe is the guy where my opinion seems to be furthest from the consensus.

This exchange is over by #169, which is still early on day one. There's no reason given for Ship being a wolf. Ship's response ("I thought I actually didn't start that terribly") is kind of wolf/wolfy, maybe winking a bit at Globe if they're both wolves.

So now he's clearing Ship. Ship doesn't really give a read on him beyond listing him quite high near d1 EoD - which I find a bit wolf/wolfy, since he was a potential counterwagon to Luckay at that point.

I've written about Luckay's vote before. Suffice to say that having wolfed with Luckay a couple of times, I think it's entirely possible that he'd vote for a wolf bro here. It's off-wagon and Globe doesn't have a lot of heat here. It might even be more likelier than average for Luckay's vote to land on a wolf if Luckay thinks he's too busy to go far in the game without bussing.

The explanation comes only after Jim presses Luckay on it. Of course, we don't know what Luckay would have posted if he hadn't been interrogated by Jim.

Near EoD Luckay reiterates his Globe case in a way that's not going to get anyone to vote for Globe. He's in anti-spew in general, though, so I'd say that part is neutral.

For his part, by the time Globe leaves the thread, Mets and Jim have already voted for Luckay and Jim is making his case. Globe has nothing to say about it, even though it's important and concerns him. He gives no read on Luckay that I can find. I think that's a bit wolfy.

On day two Globe makes reasoned arguments against a bunch of players who are all villagers if he's a wolf. He eventually votes for me, the likeliest mislynch. But later he switches:

At this point the vote count is 4-4 between Ship and I. Notably I haven't voted for Ship yet, so that'd be a fifth vote and then Telco and LKJ both need to vote for me to save Ship. LKJ has just announced,
in post #769. In #780 Globe votes for Ship out of nowhere, having said nothing about Ship before. At that point a Ship lynch looks likely even without his vote. As much as wolves would like to have a mislynch, that's still a bussing spot.

Verdict: I think Globe's posting is wolfy in parts - there's a reason I voted for him on day one - and I don't find his interactions with wolves to be clearing. I think he's a good lynch if Ufo happens to be a villager.

More about Hardcore's wolf read (or lackthereof) of SIU:
Notice that he doesn't say why SIU is wolfy, but instead that SIU/LKJ are v/w probably and that SIU must be the wolf because "LKJ said something yesterday that I liked". That's a terrible reason for calling someone a wolf.

I quoted Tappo's post because of Hardcore's response. Again, a lazy read as "SIU is probably a wolf for that". Because of a meta read where he called another wolf out for not posting? and then if that's the reason then it wouldn't make sense given that he says that SIU changed his meta a lot.

My rankings look something like this:

Felix
Binkles
Annie

Telco
Timon
LKJ

Globe

Ufo

I like this list (except for me being too low, but w/e). I'm probably at this right now:

Binkles
Felix
Tappo
Telco
Annie

LKJ
Globe

Hardcore

My vote would be on hardcore now, but I don't want to vote yet mainly because I want to avoid maj before I finish rereading the thread.

Nice, Globe noted the same thing I did. He moves up in my list, Hardcore looks worse because I'm not imagining things.

I finally got to the point where Telco makes a case against me. As I said above, I think he's a villager, but I think his case on me made no sense.

The first part is the fact that I jumped on Luckay's wagon and he saw that as if I was a wolf getting on the buss early. Fine, I have said in a previous post that the fact that he said the same thing about SIU is villagery. However, my biggest problem with his case is the follow-up post:

He quoted two posts, one where I say a meta read on SIU is not conclusive yet I vote him right away and the other where he implies that I chose not to answer Globe's question.

First, my SIU vote didn't come out of nowhere. In my first few posts of d2 I say LKJ/SIU were my wolf candidates.

Then in the evening after Binkles asked me to "free flow" I said this:
So as you can see I'm thinking that LKJ is not likely a wolf because he's going after one of the clearest villagers.

I think this post was directed at Globe, answering the question TElco said I wasn't answering.

I follow up to that post saying why I thought LKJ/SIU were my preferred wagons.

Then I noted a mets/SIU interaction that looked bad for SIU.

And then I quoted the game Tappo had referred to earlier.

So, I vote SIU, but the vote didn't come out of nowhere as Telco implied.

I'm going to bed, will finish reading tomorrow. Consider my vote on Hardcore at this point, I'm just not voting to avoid an early maj.

Incidentally, something I found wolfy about you was the overreliance on this type of a read where you give people villager points for seeing the same thing as you or agreeing with you. It appears mechanical to me. The question of why a wolf wouldn't notice those things or would refrain from pointing them out doesn't come up.

Here, if Globe is a wolf, then Ufo is a villager. Globe is looking for mislynches. Ufo looks bad on level one, so he's a potential target. Wolf Globe is going to read Ufo's posts looking for things he might use to call Ufo wolfy.

Eh, I guess it's just how you make reads. I mean, villager Binkles should notice if something's up, and if he's the wolf, then you're villaging.