Lee will walk. The ICGPA will prevail. This competancy nonsense is just the state trying to avoid taking a case they can't win to trial because they indicted someone who wont plea bargain and wants to go to trial asap. Of course Lawson might just be trying to delay the inevitable, or he may just be trying to make Lee look silly or crazy. He already knows he is both, and he is standing on the high moral ground. Go Harold!

There is always more going in Willy! Lets not be coy and secretive about it. Check out azcapitoltimes.com for poker articles. Watch out, the legislative members are gonna wake up soon.

The following comes from Whale Shark Lounge: A website used by the poster above JOBO...

Whale Shark Lounge
Ron and Mike plea bargained down to lesser charges. Judge Lee wants a trial by jury, and won't plea bargain. State is now kinda stuck... they can't win the case and have said so twice in the past.
7 hours ago · View Feedback (3)Hide Feedback (3)
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Whale Shark Lounge The election year is now over, so the AIGA can stop threatening Brewer and Goddard to withhold campaign contributions if they don't attack Judge Lee, which they did, and whoa Nelly, surprise surprise prosecuting attorney Lawson... Lee isn't gonna accept your plea bargain and now you're left holding Goddard's mess. You don't wanna loose the case, you don't wanna dismiss it... mmm, what to do what to do?
7 hours ago
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Whale Shark Lounge Hey, how about we try to embarrass Judge Lee by putting him thru a competancy hearing? LOL. Really guys? If anything, it'll delay the inevitable, but who is the genius that came up with this strategy anyway? And hey, if he's deemed incompetent to stand trial (which I seriously doubt will be the case) then we can all walk away and leave that **** just floating out there in the wind.
7 hours ago
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Whale Shark Lounge Why not spend our tax dollars prosecuting real criminals? The fact that the State has called for a Rule 11 hearing... is a joke. That's usually a defense tactic. Stupid politics.
7 hours ago



Jobo, Scottsdale city prosecutor prosecuted the owner of Deal Me In along with brought five others up on gambling charges (... Half of those plead guilty the other half convicted by a jury of their peers)

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...onvictions.pdf

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...essrelease.pdf

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...ase10-2-09.pdf

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...Conviction.pdf

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...perations.html

The Gilbert City Attorney stated in the link above and in city drafted documents that she believes that the poker room, which was closed due to code violations, to be operating illegally. See this city didn't even have to waste taxpayer money on this illegal activity... Closed due to code violations. The City of Phoenix has met this week in discussing who is actually responsible for upholding code within Phoenix regarding these poker rooms. As you know, poker is specifically listed as being in violation of city code.

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...2008-12-23.pdf

http://www.gm.state.az.us/pressrelea...ndictments.pdf

More indictments of card room organizers... This time the ring leader. Why the ring leader? One they have wanted him for a long time. Two, when the ring leader falls so shall all the other poker rooms and ADOG knows it. The Scottsdale cases were settled by juries of their peers... That is those who didn't plea barging out to save them more grief and expense. Tucson, the gambling defendants plead guilty to gambling violations. The two defendants indicted, other than Lee, plead guilty to gambling violations. Are they going to work with the state in providing information concerning Lee's involvement? Not sure...

Harold Lee implicated and announced in the above case involving raids. Plea of guilty by the former owners of this forced closed room/gambling operation. Oh, guess what JOBO... All of the cases above involved playing poker. They were all guilty of gambling crimes. Poker IS gambling according to prosecuted cases.

Not to mention some of the owners, card dealers of not yet prosecuted poker rooms currently operating contain people involved with criminal fraud, having major judgments against them based on manipulation and who are known con artist within Maricopa County. Live testimonies are lined up and waiting in the wing to to testify as to the character of people who are currently involved in these illegal poker rooms.

Your own poker community in Phoenix have openly discussed and customers witnessed collusion going on in at least one room there. That has been saved and noted to media and authorities. Who else is cheating, bottom dealing, signaling in these rooms as the owners play cards on their own tables with house money, with their card dealing buddies playing in the same games as well being dealt cards by their co-workers/card dealer buddies. Not to mention prop players brought in by the owners/card dealers to string games along who also play with house money. That is all being discussed outside your circle. And what did happen at that Poker Room you mentioned in another site on that Friday night? Potentially more collusion, as you lead to believe in attempting to condemn another room. What else collusive, crooked or otherwise is going on in these gambling businesses/poker rooms that the owners, card dealers and players are unwilling to share with everyone. We all know that the main skill trait in poker is the ability to bluff or deceive. That spells trouble for the honest players out there. It is also well known that dedicated poker players just want to win... With deceit being the main skill set in poker rooms, I find it difficult to believe that more collusion isn't taking place on a larger scale. It has already been pointed out that is does exist within your own circle and fellow players. Especially with so many owners, dealers, managers, security and friendly prop players playing their own tables, some with house money which would be illegal in itself!!

These are just observations... By the way, the reporter for the Capital Times who did those stories was talked to concerning the other side of the spectrum. All these curious facts plus that below had been discussed along with the known, on record fraud committing, manipulative con artists who operate in some of the room currently. Public court records and names to include AKA's were discussed. Live testimonies of those defrauded, manipulated, lied to, cheated and conned are waiting in the wing. There was much discussed with the reporter concerning the not so nice side of the poker room story opposite that which was told by the gambling business owners, players and card dealers. The owners of these rooms will say anything to a reporter to keep their cash cow rolling... That's some peoples human nature. I'm sure that all, even most of the info the reporter received was not false... However, he did not receive the entire story from other outside sources. Until yesterday. It is important that both sides of the poker room/gambling business controversy is put forward so people can make more clear assumptions about that which will/may be prosecuted or closed in the future.

Are you and all the owners, card dealers, paid security, players, managers all familiar with the IRS? The IRS has been made aware of the poker/gambling taking place throughout Maricopa County and they will likely be making sure that all the known names of dealers, owners and whoever else is operating within these rooms are paying their fair share of proper taxes. Are you all familiar with IRS form f3949? It has a specific box to check for gambling, unpaid tax etc... But that is the IRS's thing!! Not sure where that will lead but ADOG did state that they had met with the IRS concerning the currently operating poker rooms and taxes.

Now the one thing I don't remember coming across in researching the poker rooms or listening here or there.... I don't remember anyone involved in these poker rooms getting off or charges dropped or anyone involved getting off free and clear. If the other two defendants straight out plead guilty after much discussion with prosecutors and where this case was headed... I find it difficult to believe that Lee will be the first to walk seeing how they have more on him than any of the others previously mentioned. Lee has thumbed his nose at the AG's authority as well as ADOG... They didn't get in this to lose and they likely won't. but who knows, only time will tell. See you in April.

By "a website used by the poster above," he means: His facebook page.

Anyway, as mentioned in the other thread, the state, which has demonstrated already it can convict people in a jury trial, is having Lee's competency tested simply to cover their butts.

They want their case to be air tight.

If anyone not already inside of the Lee camp were to read his website, they'd lump him in with Turthers, 911 conspirators, holocaust deniers and other assorted nut-jobs.

Seriously. Go to http://www.icgpa.org/ and tell me this guy's got all his marbles?

So, I say again, the competency hearing is to make this stick. They don't want this tied up in court for another year. Prove he's sane, and then lock his ass up for profiting from others playing poker.

You see, Judge Lee doesn't want reform.

Judge Lee is like every other strip-mall poker operator in the state. He wants to take money from people in exchange for dealing poker to them. He wants to take "button charges" and put them in his pocket.

These strip-mall games exist because the operators of these rooms make money -- not because they're moral crusaders fighting for the "rights" of poker players.

We poker players can already play whenever we want with whomever we want without the Judge Lee's of the world taking a "button fee" from us and telling us it's not a rake.

Don't try to piss on us and call it rain.

He broke the law. He took money from others to deal them poker; and he helped others take money from their players in exchange for dealing them poker. That's 100%, unquestionably, against state law. No tirade about the BIA changes that. Any discussion of the BIA is a silly straw-man argument, and that's why the state got any discussion of the BIA barred from court.

Yes or no? Did Harold Lee make benefit of others' gambling?
Yes or no? Did Harold Lee help other strip-mall games make benefit of others' gambling?

Yes on both.
If he's sane (which is obviously debatable), he's boned.
He can join his co-conspirators as Arizona's newest felons.

Stupidity alone won't cut it for an insanity defense.

Hmm, I don't disagree with your interpretation of the law, but I also don't disagree with the passage of Lee's you quoted. Bombastic? Yes. Over the top? Yes.

But essentially I agree with the general point. Why should a small group be given a monopoly over gambling to gouge gamblers and poker players with excessive rake and house edges that make this type of entertainment far more expensive than it needs to be, which also makes it far more damaging to addicts.

When did I agree to give up those rights? I can legally gamble all day in a private home for the highest stakes I want, or even in a commercial establishment, as long as I don't pay my host anything in return for the benefits they provide me. But if the host asks me for any contribution, no matter how small, and suddenly we have a problem that requires prosecution and use of my tax monies to "solve". All at the behest of a slimy group of monopolists who don't contribute but a small fraction of their excess profits to the state.

I wonder if the poker clubs would have escaped prosecution had they made contributions voluntary, and just subsisted off of donations and sales of food/drink?

The AG says that that would be benefiting from gambling.

And the AG may be right, and the AG may be wrong. Ultimately, the exact line between a private "no benefit" game and a game where someone can reliably said to be "benefiting from gambling" other than as a player will have to be decided by the AZ courts.

Playing card manufacturers "benefit from gambling" in some sense... there has to be a line somewhere.

I am only a far away observer here and so take this for what its worth, but it seems to me that a good case can be made for a private club that had poker but only took money as "Dues" to run the club is or at least should be legal. From that extreme, how close was Judge Lee's operation? Did it cross the line?

I don't know the facts nor prior AZ court decisions near well enough to offer an opinion on the answer to those questions.

The reason I bring them up is point out that it seems to me that Tea-Party friendly AZ might just produce a jury, maybe even a judge, which concludes that any law which requires the government to review your business to determine whether it is a legitimate social club where folks sometimes play poker, or an illegitimate poker den that exists to profit on being a place where folks sometimes play poker, is just a stupid law and reject it.

Just my 2 cents.

Skallagrim

Skallagrim,

My entire post above, on this page, provides links and details the prosecution and guilty pleas of the owner, a few card dealers as well as a few poker playing customers in Scottsdale former poker room there. The individuals in the Scottsdale gambling business, who didn't provide guilty pleas, were convicted by juries of their peers. So a jury has tried operators of a poker room already.

It also shows the raid by the City of Tucson and tribe which sued the owners of Club Royal in that city. The husband and wife owners of that "social club" both plead guilty to gambling violations.

Two of the co-defendants in the Harold Lee case, who operated the club, both provided guilty pleas of reduced charges of promotion of gambling last month.

A poker room/gambling business in Gilbert AZ was closed due to code violations. The city attorney in Gilbert also stated that the poker room in that city appeared to be in violation of state law as well. Gilbert didn't have to prosecute. The room was closed due to code violations. The room owners didn't challenge the closing of the club.

The City of Phoenix has zoning codes which specifically stipulate poker as being in violation. The city is currently looking into the matter.

All of the poker rooms which guilty pleas were given, prosecutions handed down or closed due to code violations, all considered themselves "private social clubs". There is no stipulation stating that private social clubs are exempt of state laws or tribal gaming compacts. The statues only stipulates that if gambling off reservations is operated as a business for profit and benefit, the gambling is in violation of state law. All the websites opened by the clubs detailing the promotions their private social poker rooms is also in violation of state law. Convictions have been handed down or plea agreements reached concerning all the above. Again, they all considered themselves to be and attempted to operate as private social clubs... Call it what you will, contributions, tips, donations or dues... It all constitutes profit and benefit. Multiple courts have already determined this.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov...1/m4556786.pdf

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov...1/m4564275.pdf


I could also provide the document where the city attorney of Gilbert states that the social poker club there appears to her to be in violation of state law as well.

http://www.gm.state.az.us/newsmedia.htm

Plea agreements could be happening because they know they were not actually doing social gambling. In fact I bet charges are not filed until the prosecutor is dang sure that they were not.

But if it truly is social then there is nothing to charge. Except maybe some zoning codes?

Two quick points:

• It's a straw-man argument relative to his current situation. It'd be like saying you're allowed to defraud a college because Equal Opportunity laws are discriminatory.
• He may be right, tribal compacts may be unfair; but read more posts on his website. What I quoted was pretty mild. He goes on about modern-day slave ownership, blood soaked lands, ethnic cleansing... ...you name it. It certainly gives pause to check his sanity.

The Retired Arizona Justice of the Peace Harold Lee suggested business model is to take a "button fee" (from the player on the button) of $2 a hand before the cards are dealt, and to pocket this $2 per hand for the house. Players are then encouraged to liberally tip the dealer, as the $2 per hand... ...excuse me, the $2 that's completely unrelated to the gambling, and as such isn't subject to Arizona gambling laws... ...is vastly less than a nearby tribal casino would take.

He's being targeted because he's employed this model himself, and because he's advised other clubs - provided them with business plans - for how to operate the same way. In exchange for that business plan, he got paid.

Opinion currently holds in Arizona that even using gambling as a loss leader for your retail location violates the benefit clause, as does being a tip-only dealer.

That said, there are several clubs open this very moment, dealing cards for a small fee (or expected "donation"). At least one of them is primarily a social club, with backgammon boards (or similar). They might stand up to court scrutiny here.

...but the "Judge" Lee case is a big deal. His guilty verdict is going to mark the end of strip-mall poker until such a time that our laws are changed.

And I think they're gonna convict him. His co-defendants already accepted FELONY pleas. [A class-6 is pretty minor here, in that it goes away...] But to take the felony plea, you've got to have your lawyer telling you that you can't go to trial or you're going to PMITA prison.

Huh? Where's the straw man except in your example? I didn't say what he did was legal. I'm saying the current situation is a gross abrogation of individual rights to benefit a small group of monopolists. A more reasonable example would be banning for profit colleges and making it illegal to provide educational services except through public entities.

I realize in present day America we've become inurred to the idea that private businesses can be licensed in such a way that restrict competition and consumer choice, but it doesn't make it right.

I'm saying that Judge Lee is using his beef with the BIA as a straw man argument.

The BIA being corrupt (or not) is neither here nor there to him benefiting from others gambling.

• If you want to enact change, collect signatures (we have open initiatives here in Arizona) or petition a sympathetic state representative.
• If you want to make money, open a card room and rake $2 a hand.

Which did he do?

Morally right or wrong, the laws of the state of Arizona allow for The State to engage in a tribal compact for gaming, and forbid anyone else without such a compact from setting up for-profit gambling.

You can't just pick an arbitrary "unfair" law you don't like (say, liquor sales before noon on Sunday, or no smoking in your business) and violate it -- and help others devise plans on how to violate it too, and get money from them for their profits on breaking those laws on your advice -- and not expect to suffer the consequence of law.

He's not a crusader.

He's a guy who wanted to get in on the casino action and take a rake.

He's a guy who helped others who wanted to get in on the casino action and take a rake -- and he took a rake from them! The state has a word for that -- conspiracy.

His jury is going to get a very simple instruction: "If Judge Lee benefited from others gambling, you must find him guilty."

...speaking of straw-man arguments...

What does that have to do with: "Did Judge Lee benefit from others gambling?" ...because that's the question they're going to ask his jury.

I think we are having a violent agreement, so I have nothing left to add other than I agree and hope someday someone will initiate a petition to promote some competition.

There are lots of shady judges out there. Politics is corrupt in its very nature.

As I've said a few times. I'll be first in line to sign a petition for legislative change.

To answer your original question, you, and the state of Az via people like us, didn't agree. The right was taken away in the 1980s when the Supreme Court invented the Indian gambling industry. To regain their right to regulate gambling, the states had to sign compacts that gave Indians a monopoly.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/480/202/

Also radical change would have to be in the compact or at the Federal level. Lobbying for that would work as well as jamming 56s to hit the bbjp.

I don't read it exactly that way. Clearly the state of AZ can allow non-tribal entities to open casinos and poker rooms, we'd just end the compact and lose the small amount of money the tribes pay arizona, and potentially the right to regulate gaming on the reservations.

The tribes pay less than 8% of total "net win" a year, right now about $50m, a drop in the bucket of the state budget. I'm sure private entities would be happy to pay 10-15% of "net win", and would rapidly put the poorly run and located tribal casinos out of business, regardless of whether indian casinos were regulated or not.

Not only would the state collect more revenues, but rake/house advantage would likely decline because of competition. Right now it appears the tribes are capturing a huge monopolistic profit at the expense of both gamblers and the state of arizona.

As I understand the law, in that compact-free scenario Az loses the right to tax and regulate the tribal casinos that can now be put anywhere in the state. So they could put up little casinos all over the valley that would not pay any special taxes. I mean imagine a casino being forced upon a city that doesn't want one

The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act requires good faith neogtiations and a compact so I don't even know if that scenario is possible. An interesting question would be about Nevada's tribes. Does anything stop them from opening a casino in LV?

There is plenty of competition, especially if you live in Phoenix. I mean, how many poker rooms do you need? Play at home with friends if you are too cheap to pay rake....or Play at one of many casinos in AZ that charge rake same as any casino in United States. Plus AZ boats some of the better rooms to play competitive poker in US.

Not that tough....

Also, Albuquerque, Las Vegas, Los Angeles all great places to play that are not a far drive/flight. We really do not need a card room in every strip mall. Just a bunch of lawbreakers trying to make a dollar without having to pay the money a full time casino costs to operate.

Are you kidding? If it were legal, I'd bet I could open a card room in scottsdale or tempe today, charge lower rake and time, and within a year be one of the biggest card rooms in the state. I'd provide a better location, lower costs, better comp system, and better marketing.

The mere threat of competition serves to lower prices. In almost every city, event those with legal card rooms, the licensing process is so strict as to minimize competition and allow the rooms to keep their rake/time charges high. The lowest time charges I've seen have been in Vegas, where there is almost unlimited competition.

You are right about one thing, we don't need lawbreakers, but we do need legitimate competition. We don't need home games with thousands of dollars in play and no security, no legitimacy, and no oversight, games that only exist with any popularity because it's illegal for a legitimate business to provide those services.

And legalizing poker clubs isn't going to put one in every strip mall. First, poker clubs benefit from mass, the more players who play there the more games and value they offer players, etc. So while there will be competition, it's likely that there won't be too many more rooms, just a few more large ones and lower rake/time charges. And zoning can be used to keep them out the types of areas where the local populace might faint at the association, like churches which are against gambling (except bingo).

This country has made many drugs illegal, and yet illegal dirges are still sold everywhere in it, just not safely, without any oversight on their purity/impurities and even cut with harder drugs like heroin to "capture" new customers. It's created huge fortunes for illegal businessmen often lacking in ethics, that don't pay taxes or contribute to the costs their business creates, and many who would cause our skin crawl if you and I were ever associated with them.

Why would you be surprised that keeping poker rooms illegal attracts the same types of get rich quick artists and creates similar problems?

This is exactly what is occurring at the illegal poker rooms at the moment. No regulation, no background checks like the casinos, no proper documentation for tax or accountability purpose on those volunteer card dealers or managers currently operation inside. I know of at least one card room which has a very shady, on public record and off, owner, manager, card dealer, prop player. Currently, seedy character can apply for a retail license as they do and operate a gambling business freely and some do. Recently the people who play these rooms in Phoenix were talking freely on various websites about collusion taking place amongst players and dealers.

While I'm at it... Non profit and coop private social poker rooms is the current craze. This in another attempt to skirt Arizona law (the rooms are currently illegal), taxes and prosecution. I was thinking, if a poker room/gambling business can consider themselves to be non profit social clubs or coops.... Then all other businesses such as restaurant/bars, strip clubs, liquor stores, massage parlors (plenty of happy ending places in Maricopa County) and various other/all businesses should be able to claim the same. Same basic concepts. Social gatherings, in businesses with somewhat dark and shady backgrounds. Each with their own vice. And if the state and feds are going to provide for this... I think all businesses should look into this non profit/coop scam.

One social poker room coop in Phoenix claims to be a non profit coop currently but I can't find documentation as to non profit/coop. I can find the LLC listing but that's it. Does anyone know where to find businesses which have been properly licensed/registered as coops or nonprofit to the state and federal governments. I believe you have to be registered with both.

Desert Cat, do you agree that under the current laws and tribal gaming compacts that these poker rooms violate state gambling statues. It seems the majority of us know them to be illegal except for those who own, deal cards in or play them. Even some of those who own, play and deal in them have stated they believe them to be illegal but if they will be tolerated... They might as well make a few bucks before the room gets busted.

The biggest problems with the rooms is that there is absolutely no regulation/over site, no background checks to make sure very shady characters don't get involved (which at the present time I know of a few), no proper documentation of the card dealers, managers and in some cases the owners for tax purpose or accountability.

A few of the people involved in the currently operating, against state law, poker rooms have stated they are for being licensed and regulated... But then say they want to regulate themselves. That's like asking a cat to babysit a fish.

I say make them legal.. But don't let these people operate with/on the general public without outside regulation, background checks on all those who work inside to keep out the riffraff and proper documentations and logs on employees for accountability sake just like the businesses mentioned above are currently responsible to provide.

It's just at the present time, the rooms are illegal and violate state gaming compacts with no regulation, background check requirement nor proper licensing/documentation for the service they actually provide.

"The T J plans to organize and register as a federally recognized non-profit social poker club co-operative"... From the promoting website of one of the phoenix poker rooms.

I found one of my answers above. This room apparently is not currently registered as a nonprofit/coop. They only state that it is on their website and on posts... A fine bluff indeed. I thought maybe they actually went through the steps of becoming a non profit/coop before stating and posting on official sites that they ARE. I feel so cheated, lied to, deceived and mislead... Well not completely but it is what an owner has announced and lead people to believe. The website does reflect that the club is actually a non profit social club/coop as well as has been stated in posts.

http://thetiltedjack.com/Memberships.htm

http://thetiltedjack.com/index.htm

Oh well, no big deal. It's not exactly being up front nor honest with your customers or "volunteer" employees who are already involved with what they may think is a coop/non profit.... No the rest of us who pay attention to these type of things. This is clearly deceiving to the public.

Lying, cheating and deceiving should be one of the biggest concerns of customers who frequent these poker rooms. By the operators as well as other customers. I don't like the fact that the owners are playing their own tables with their poker dealer buddy friends and prop players they have coming in to play with house money. The dealers play the tables with their dealer buddies, owners and prop players against their own customers at the same time.

How does everyone feel about that? The potential for collusion and such? I don't play these places and am not vary familiar with their play.

A petition will come. We have nearly
300 members including police, state and city employees, lawyers and some pretty sharp activists on our roll. We will exhaust legislative sponsorship opportunities first. Our movement is all about enacting the changes needed to take away the gray when it involves poker.*

We can model our state regd after michigan or california or any of the other states that have realized poker is here to stay and it doesnt need to be confined to our homes or another country or without nebulous benefit to be legal. We also can borrow from the az tribal class ii poker rules and regulations.*

Tribal casinos have called poker class ii gaming and snubbed their nose at the state when az tried to shut em all down because the poker was being run "as a business" aka for profit aka nebulous beautific "benefit". So if poker is class ii gaming -- like bingo -- and if we can have a State Department of Revenue - Bingo Section regulating, licensing and taxing bingo, why not a Dept of Revenue - Poker Section? Or expand it, combine poker and bingo?

Cuz seriously... How much work do the fellas over in the bingo section have to do staking out illegal double-daubered grannies at st pauls monthly bingo game?*

How do we pitch our movement to the state? Or will Phoenix (or tombstone, or any city with cahones) step up and challenge the state by being ahead of the times and license, tax and oversee the poker revolution?

Folks, please keep in mind that illegal gambling laws are designed to thwart frauds, cons, cheats, money laundering and organized crime syndicates. If the state wants to prosecute Lee, or any other operators, should they not have to prove that these things were going on? They are being prosecuted using laws -- and poorly written laws at that -- meant for slot machines and other pure lucky chance "gambles"!

And folks, AZ illegal gambling laws are NOT there to protect tribal casinos and the state's vested interest in their monopoly on chance gambling schemes. Great. Let them have their stupid games and let them make millions and millions off the suckers that contrribute to their -- to coin a phrase -- popcorn buckets of chump change.

But the tribes, vegas, the internet... These entities do not own poker. We do. Especially arizona, arguably the birthplace of modern day high stakes poker in tombstone in the 1880s Wild West. Remember Doc Holliday? What would he do if he were around today? I bet we'd have fewer nits to deal with! Lol

So if a non-profit, social club operating as a federally-registered service cooperative with our primary mission being a common desire to enact the changes we would all like to see, then where is the crime in the fact that we discuss our motions, actions, plans, etc. seated at a poker table instead of the boardroom table? Where is the fraud, manipulation, money laundering, or organized crime influence that illegal gambling laws are there to prevent? If you cant find and prove that, then good luck trying to prosecute a social club which operates "at cost" thru a member-agreed and voted upon pay-per-use dues or fees? In which all members in the movement have, via that movement, a bona fide social relationship -- not dues or a rental or retail interest?

And if all 300+ members in the coop are equal owners with the founders and charter members? If every member has a key, if we all have equal vote and we hold regular nightly meetings and a monthly general meeting following parliamentary procedure to exercise the rights and voice this type of legal structure provides, then where is the crime? Nit, holdeth thy tongue.

We have beat this horse dead. Some nit called my club asking pointed questions and I had to laugh when this vigilante no-life informed us that the proper authorities will be notified. What? Please, leave a name and number next time, nit. We will invite you, the DOG, the AG,*
AIGA, the city council, county attorney, police and fire chiefs to sit down with our organization and get down to the nitty gritty with what, if any, major malfunction is going on in your head? You actually called our club and attempted to scare us? We have the high moral ground here!

The pitch can be found in our newsletter. It is pretty exciting, taps into poker, a global business, puts arizona on the map as a founder that contributed to modern day high stakes poker, generates tourism, a year-long poker show akin to high stakes poker or poker after dark, involves the cities, hospitality industry, and names tombstone as our capital and creates jobs, generates taxes and other revenue, and actually benefit tribal casinos -- its a winning proposition for all.

It involves (ideally to make it happen quixkly) getting a city to step up and legitimize poker clubs like ours so we can give 10% of our gross as an amusement tax, and establish industry rules and regs ala compact appendix f, license us, permit us, legitimize our "not illegal" operations so we are as commonplace and accepted as bowling alleys, billiard halls and adult toy stores.

Sorry for typos and caps. Doing this from my phone. Ack!

If u wanna read more about this movement and our ideas, please visit*http://thetiltedjack.com/TRFFeb2011.pdf

PS brnovich-be-done, Lee and the ICGPA countersued the Tucson tribe that cried about club royale "stealing their players". Charges were dropped. Still think there is no BIA influence and pressure palimax?

Lee is "crazy" cuz he wants a jury trial. The state didnt rule 11 his arse to "seal the deal" and "make it stick" -- they want a way out to make it (and lee) go away in a case they cant win. They cant. They know it and have already filed a motion to suppress any mention of BIA conspiracies to lee's argument, as if he even needs to go that deep into the maelstrom.