** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** - Page 1395 - Computer Technical Help

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395 895 1195 1295 1345 1375 1385 1390 1391 1392 1393 1394 1395 1396 1397 1398 1399 1400 1405 1415 1445 1495 1595

Last

08-29-2018 , 06:24 PM

#34851

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Lol yeah - this is how the entire world works now. Tell your C++ devs to get over it.

In Go do you have to repeat the full URL in every file you want to import the package into, or just once?

Quote

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08-29-2018 , 06:25 PM

#34852

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmakin

I don’t know about the Web world, but we were doing that for one repo that got deleted, and my boss couldn’t find a copy of it anywhere but managed to find it in a repo that was controlled by Sears (lmao). So we just copied it over to our own.

And npm fixed the problem within a few hours I think. Which shows you that the system is robust.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 06:41 PM

#34853

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Serious question - let's say I commit a bunch of stuff to my local branch and push to my remote branch. Oopps messed up.

So now I basically just want to completely undo that action. I want my remote and local branch rolled back, and all my changes sitting back on my local machine in uncommitted form. I don't want to lose my changes, just undo the commit and push.

I don't necessarily care about the history unless that will confuse git somehow further down the line (IE - I don't care about squashing commits for human readers or logs or anything).

Every time I try to do that it turns into a big mess.

Let n be the number of commits you want rollback.

git reset HEAD~n
git stash
git push origin --force
git stash pop

Communicate this to anyone else working on the branch, otherwise they may introduce your old stuff.

Also, I've never used git revert, so unsure if there's a better way using that.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 06:43 PM

#34854

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Lol yeah - this is how the entire world works now. Tell your C++ devs to get over it.

In Go do you have to repeat the full URL in every file you want to import the package into, or just once?

If a file uses an imported package, it must specify the import URL. (in practice, once I have the repo on disk, if I try using something from it in a file then the Go plugin for VS Code will add the import line for me)

Quote

08-29-2018 , 07:07 PM

#34855

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

I love when VS Code adds an import. I get hysterically upset when it removes them

Quote

08-29-2018 , 07:48 PM

#34856

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

So a lot of your files have a bunch of full URLs at the top?

Like say whatever the Go equivalent of lodash is - you either have that url at the top of every file that uses it, or you assign godash (heh) to some global or app-level variable and use that?

Could you import different versions of 3rd party packages into different files?

Quote

08-29-2018 , 08:28 PM

#34857

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by :::grimReaper:::

...and this assuming you need to immediately update remote. Otherwise it's easier to simply ammend commits.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 08:37 PM

#34858

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmakin

So I think I am discovering I have a talent for and enjoy writing/using/debugging scripts and doing system level stuff. I don’t think i have a knack for writing and designing software code.

What type of careers are heavy in this? Devops/sys admin type of stuff? What should I be focusing on learning ?

I think yes, but I'm not confident. Mostly quoting for new page.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 08:46 PM

#34859

Grue

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,667

Go get seems horrendously stupid. There's not even versions? Standard practice for npm/js is to pin dependencies to a version which should make it dependable. At least better than go.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 08:58 PM

#34860

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmakin

So I think I am discovering I have a talent for and enjoy writing/using/debugging scripts and doing system level stuff. I don’t think i have a knack for writing and designing software code.

What type of careers are heavy in this? Devops/sys admin type of stuff? What should I be focusing on learning ?

Yeah devops is a great field to get into right now. Everything is changing so fast that experience isn't as important.

Funny thing is I've always been the opposite - I just want to code and avoid all that gnarly system stuff. But DevOps with cloud has kind of met me half way. At least I don't have to worry about **** like how to install gcc 10.2 on Ubuntu 4.2.0 and make sure chmod is right and my PATH is correct and my process is in background mode and whatever other painful crap.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 09:28 PM

#34861

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

- yep, URL goes in every file that uses it
- packages are not objects, can't assign or pass them
- can only import different versions of the same package in different places by importing the repo yourself and putting it in a special dir where the Go tools will look for it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grue

Go get seems horrendously stupid. There's not even versions?

- yes
- yes

Quote

08-29-2018 , 09:53 PM

#34862

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

It seems funny to me that there aren't version in "go get"

The imports are all, like, git repos, right? They couldn't let you add a "tag=" or "branch="?

Quote

08-29-2018 , 09:56 PM

#34863

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

So in this example - the imported loader package is referenced later on in the code as "loader".

Code:

import (
	"fmt"
	"go/types"
	"log"
	"os"
	"strings"
	"unicode"
	"unicode/utf8"

	"golang.org/x/tools/go/loader"
)

Code:

       // The loader loads a complete Go program from source code.
	var conf loader.Config
	conf.Import(pkgpath)
	lprog, err := conf.Load()

What happens if there's a name conflict? I guess all go packages must have unique names? Well npm is like that. So ok. But how do you enforce if they can be hosted anywhere?

Quote

08-29-2018 , 09:59 PM

#34864

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

One nice thing about release branches is if we found out something broke like 2 weeks after the release, I can do a dummy pull request (DMN- = DO NOT MERGE) between the previous release and the current one and scan over the diff for possible culprits. I guess you can do this with tags (which we hardly used but probably should have). But I really like the visual onsite diff of pull-requests, and ability to add comments, etc. Maybe I can still get that with tags?

This is where "observability" tooling is nice. Ideally you don't go weeks before noticing a problem. But even if you do (it obviously still happens), you can easily go back and see when exactly the problems started happening and isolate it to a specific release. And since you're doing small frequent releases - its usually pretty obvious what the problem is.

I don't think release branches are inherently bad - but they're a sign of things being done in a way that really aren't ideal anymore for most companies/software.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 10:02 PM

#34865

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

It took a while for everyone to get used to FF but once you have it, you do not want to go back. If they're cheap enough you can keep them around for config - like the throttling system I use is based on feature flags so if I decide on a whim that I need to change the throttling rate for a url, or a class of users, or whatever, I can just do it immediately, no deploy.

I remember when I first learned about them watching a talk (by Etsy I think?) and I was blown away and was like "We have to add this!". It was brilliant.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 10:02 PM

#34866

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Is 8-space tabs some kind of Go thing? https://github.com/sipt/shuttle/blob/master/model.go - second repo I've seen like this.

If so I'm out. I'd rather make hats on the beach.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 10:07 PM

#34867

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

There's another button you have to push for it to actually merge to master.

The process that happens on CI is just a "local merge", it checks out all the branches over master, but doesn't commit/merge them

It took a while for everyone to get used to FF but once you have it, you do not want to go back. If they're cheap enough you can keep them around for config - like the throttling system I use is based on feature flags so if I decide on a whim that I need to change the throttling rate for a url, or a class of users, or whatever, I can just do it immediately, no deploy.

Is this like a runtime hot-config, or something different?

Quote

08-29-2018 , 11:31 PM

#34868

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Is this like a runtime hot-config, or something different?

Sort of? I don't know if there's a formal definition. For us a feature flag is a name, a boolean, and a blob of json data.

If you add a new feature, you make a new FF for it. If you just want to turn it off/on then you don't add any data. But maybe you want to have a few knobs to turn, so you stuff those in the data blob. Like maybe thresholds or timeouts or percentage of the time to show A vs B, etc. So you can tweak those in real time and they instantly will take effect.

Most FF are short lived, like you add a feature, and once it's stable you remove the FF. The system I made has deprecation dates built in. If a deprecation date is set, then once the date is hit, the flag is treated as if it's always on and you'll get nagged about it periodically.

We have some long-lived FF though. Like we have a lot of APIs that are "paged" but the # of pages is nearly infinite. Normally we don't restrict how deep people go but every now and then someone will think it's a great idea to start up 100 threads and start plowing through "everything" in an endpoint. Or, once, due to a misconfiguration, thousands of clients all decided to walk a "subscription" endpoint from the beginning of time instead of just getting what's new since the last time they checked (i.e. everyone decided at once that they needed a few million pieces of data instead of the 0-10 they might normally get).

So if that happens again I can turn on this feature flag, that limits how deep you can go on certain endpoints, let things unwind, and then resolve everything.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 11:31 PM

#34869

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Is 8-space tabs some kind of Go thing? https://github.com/sipt/shuttle/blob/master/model.go - second repo I've seen like this.

If so I'm out. I'd rather make hats on the beach.

It's a C thing. Look at anything by Torvalds.

Quote

08-29-2018 , 11:44 PM

#34870

RustyBrooks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 24,646

Quote:

Originally Posted by :::grimReaper:::

It's a C thing. Look at anything by Torvalds.

Well, sort of. There are certain areas of C programming where 8-space tabs (and really constrained column sizes, like 80) are required. The linux kernel comes to mind.

I don't know why except that it used to be very common for tab stops to be set to 8 characters so all the old dudes were used to it that way.

Quote

08-30-2018 , 12:02 AM

#34871

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Awesome. Here's the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17871313

Total nitpick but one thing I didn't like is separating a block of single use code out into another function just to make it read easier. Just leave it inline imo.

Quote

08-30-2018 , 01:40 AM

#34872

Craggoo

banned

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 12,645

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Question for web developers: in production environments, is it standard for you guys to use package managers (npm, yarn, whatever) that download remote code for you, that you guys depend on in your code?

I ask because, multiple times this year (most recently today), another engineer at our company has discovered for the first time how Go's dependency management/package importing works and started freaking out on Slack about it. It is a terribly dumb system, and requires hardcoding the URL for dependencies, like so:

Code:

import "github.com/aws/aws-sdk-go"

Then when you build your code, Go's tools will go download that repo for you. I built a slightly better system on top of this where we actually version the dependencies by commit.

Anyway, this other engineer is freaking out because we depend on remote Github repositories that are not controlled by our organization. This is how our server team (working in Go) has always done things, but it's new for our application team that's used to working in C++.

My reaction is basically "this is how the entire web/Go worlds do things and the world hasn't exploded yet" (apart from that one time leftpad happened), but I figured I should make sure that this is, in fact, how the entire web world works. He's freaking out because what if someone deletes the repository?! (we have dozens of engineers with copies of it on their hard drive who can push it to our organization in the incredibly unlikely event that happens)

I don't recall off the top of my head if we reference repos not in our control but I def recall seeing repo names referencing a lot of our private repos in go imports.

Quote:

Originally Posted by :::grimReaper:::

After thinking about it a bit more, I've come to the conclusion that there are likely a myriad of possible ways it could be accomplished. Seems like a good interview question if someone claims to be proficient at git. I would expect, at the very least, they should be able to reason their way to a working solution.

So I have a question for everyone. What approach does your company use...

One dev branch to rule 'em all. Everyone commits to it and that only gets merged to master with big releases. Any other branch that exists is presumably a hotfix for a bug that was branched off of master.

or...

Many feature branches that, realistically, should have master merged in on a regular basis. Any other branch that it might intersect with in some way should be merged in on a regular basis too.

My company started out with approach #2 (my preference) and eventually moved to #1 (don't like at all).

That reminds me... how often do you guys merge? Daily? Weekly? Some other time frame?

Quote

08-30-2018 , 01:43 AM

#34873

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

I had to write something similar as my first assignment in a Java language course:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life

Quote

08-30-2018 , 01:52 AM

#34874

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craggoo

My company started out with approach #2 (my preference) and eventually moved to #1 (don't like at all).

#1 sounds awful wtf. The feature/project can't be broken down and attacked in parts? Only once have I shared a branch with another dev, and it was a massive branch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craggoo

That reminds me... how often do you guys merge? Daily? Weekly? Some other time frame?

Funny you ask, my boss complains I submit too many MRs. Today I asked him to merge something small I pushed yesterday, and he jokingly asked, "You expect something you pushed yesterday to be merged today?" I responded, "I expected it to be merged yesterday." Everyone laughed.

Anyway, I have small branches that I start and submit the same day to merge, and branches that take weeks, and everything in between.

Quote

08-30-2018 , 02:03 AM

#34875

:::grimReaper:::

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,113

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBrooks

Linus is very adamant about it, on the grounds of readability:

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.1...ing-style.html
https://yarchive.net/comp/linux/coding_style.html

Linus might be old, but I don't consider him an "old dude" lol. And I'm in favor of 80 column sizes, because code doesn't wrap on tiled terminals. It's also enforced at where I work.