** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD ** - Page 1058 - Computer Technical Help

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** UnhandledExceptionEventHandler :: OFFICIAL LC / CHATTER THREAD **

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01-21-2017 , 01:29 PM

#26426

cannabusto

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,876

Yeah I guess it's the latter. My output is insight. R is just the tool I choose to use the most.

Quote

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01-21-2017 , 01:41 PM

#26427

MadTiger

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,403

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttiah

Just lol pseudocode. I would not hire someone who can't write real code in some language. It's a red flag that person has no experience and vastly oversold their skills (resume) to get an interview

I think the opposite. A person who quickly shows mastery of the problem to be solved (while not bothering with specific IMPLEMENTATION issues) is someone you want to hire. It would be EXTREMELY RARE that a person would exist who would know the solution in pseudocode, but who wouldn't have a damn clue about any coding.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 02:11 PM

#26428

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

Sometimes this thread says the craziest things.

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01-21-2017 , 03:47 PM

#26429

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadTiger

I could not disagree more. Ive seen what you're calling rare multiple times. Especially people with masters degree or higher.

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01-21-2017 , 03:50 PM

#26430

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttiah

Just lol pseudocode. I would not hire someone who can't write real code in some language.

Okay, but then put them in front of an IDE or something and not writing on a damn whiteboard.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 04:21 PM

#26431

kerowo

lolcat

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 37,183

It may all by syntax, but if you don't know the specific syntax they want and just know the steps you are an architect not a developer.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 06:16 PM

#26432

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by plexiq

Nobody suggested you should hire someone who can't write real code. We were actively discouraged from using real syntax in a whiteboard setting when presenting exercises at university and i thought the reasoning wasn't unreasonable. Apparently this is still a thing (see Victor's experience).

Unrelated, some random vacation project i wrote:
Quarto AI (Fun little board game, although writing this kind of ruined it for me.)

This seems like a problem with academia. I've never seen a preference for pseudocode in industry. I've never seen the value of pseudocode, unless you're writing like a theoretical algorithms textbook and want to reach the largest audience. Ruby and Python for example, are more concise and clean than random pseudocode invented by a professor.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 06:16 PM

#26433

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Okay, but then put them in front of an IDE or something and not writing on a damn whiteboard.

We use coderpad. But I don't see the problem with whiteboard for simple questions (I'm talking most interview questions, which are less than 20 lines of actual code)

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01-21-2017 , 06:18 PM

#26434

muttiah

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 25,375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benholio

If someone breezes through whiteboard problems in pseudocode, I'm not going to be that worried about whether they can write code in a real language.

Do you specifically ask them to go through the question in pseudocode first? Why repeat the problem twice? After rough design and examples, I ask candidates to jump to real code.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 08:35 PM

#26435

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

Anyone done headless browser automation in .NET? I've tried Selenium and NHtmlUnit and am rapidly getting infuriated by both.

Quote

01-21-2017 , 08:42 PM

#26436

codeartisan

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttiah

We used to use psuedocode all the time when we were developing in 8-bit assembler.

Quote

01-22-2017 , 02:02 AM

#26437

RogerKwok

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 422

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeartisan

We used to use psuedocode all the time when we were developing in 8-bit assembler.

seems to be reinforcing the previous quote

honestly for web dev, you should definitely be able to real code the modern languages (python, ruby, js)

if you're coding every day, should be super straightforward solving whiteboard problems

Quote

01-22-2017 , 05:03 AM

#26438

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 101,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Anyone done headless browser automation in .NET? I've tried Selenium and NHtmlUnit and am rapidly getting infuriated by both.

I had similar experience with headless chrome running Protractor. So painful.

Quote

01-22-2017 , 06:22 AM

#26439

ChrisV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 40,336

With Selenium, the problem is that it's a port from Java. If you automate IE or Chrome or Firefox it all works natively beautifully. But if you want to use the headless browser, because of something something their devs don't want certain .NET dependencies blah blah, you instead have to run a Selenium remote execution server locally. In Java. That makes the whole project not portable and just generally horrible.

The problem with NHtmlUnit is also that it's a port from Java. The exact problems are too complicated to get into.

Quote

01-22-2017 , 11:49 AM

#26440

plexiq

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,597

Quote:

Originally Posted by muttiah

I've never seen the value of pseudocode, unless you're writing like a theoretical algorithms textbook and want to reach the largest audience. Ruby and Python for example, are more concise and clean than random pseudocode invented by a professor.

I get the arguments for sticking close to real syntax for job interviews, but how could pseudocode possibly be less concise than a real language? You take whatever language you think is most suitable as basis, skim away syntax that doesn't add to human readability, and then use natural language and/or mathematical notations where it's useful. If the result is less concise then you did something wrong.

I find pseudocode extremely useful for algorithm planning or when thinking through stuff away from the screen.

Quote

01-22-2017 , 01:11 PM

#26441

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

You guys argue about the most aspie stuff sometimes. Seriously, you just discuss the algorithm with the person and then say "Do you want me to write real code now?". Done. Thats literally it, you talk to a human to see what they want

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01-22-2017 , 01:12 PM

#26442

Wolfram

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,066

Quote:

bla bla bla pseudocode...

jesus, are we still beating that dead horse?

Quote

01-22-2017 , 02:34 PM

#26443

MadTiger

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,403

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram

jesus, are we still beating that dead horse?

While (Internet)
Horse.beat()
Hitler.compare()
Meme.Create()
;

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01-22-2017 , 07:42 PM

#26444

Mihkel05

banned

Join Date: Jul 2015 Posts: 4,835

Could you please stop using semicolons.

Thanks.

Quote

01-22-2017 , 09:40 PM

#26445

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

I think that post needs braces around the actions in the while loop or else it might have a bug. What language is this, anyway??

Quote

01-23-2017 , 10:14 AM

#26446

MadTiger

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,403

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

I think that post needs braces around the actions in the while loop or else it might have a bug. What language is this, anyway??

LOL

TwoPlusTwoMadTigerProgrammingSubforum Pseudocode 1.0

Code:

for i=1 to infinity
       argue(stuff)

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01-23-2017 , 06:28 PM

#26447

Barrin6

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,948

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrin6

Update: Got the call that I got rejected for Software Engineer role and but google is willing to interview for Software Engineering in Tools and Infrastructure. But that means 2 more phone interviews over google doc. DJFL;KAFEJF;AIHF;ADFJA;LKDJ GAH

Had my 2 phone interviews sometime 2 weeks ago. Got the update today that I was rejected

. Oh well, the interview process continues on.

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01-23-2017 , 06:52 PM

#26448

PJo336

THRILLHOUSE!

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 22,158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrin6

Had my 2 phone interviews sometime 2 weeks ago. Got the update today that I was rejected

. Oh well, the interview process continues on.

I just had a phone interview where he started off by saying the position was already gone but he wanted to build a contact base with me for future openings. How would others have handled that? I basically had to listen to him sell the company for 20 mins even though there was no opening

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01-23-2017 , 08:19 PM

#26449

jjshabado

Carpal Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 22,732

I think its a matter of if you care about the company enough that you'd consider them in the future. If yes, sure have the conversation. If not, I'm ending the conversation right then and there (politely, of course).