Not a level. Not sure why this brings into question anything about reality. Maybe you should question your understanding of how the brain works first or what sort of things cause hallucinations?

And the point is it's a visual hallucination that's quite easy to distinguish from normal vision. Even the first time I had one, I was never under the impression that I was looking at real flashing lights, so it's not a delusion.

It's not like closing your eyes actually turns your vision to uniform blackness.

Ever lucid dreamed?
What about making a pink elephant appear and then making it disappear?
What about seeing past the illusion in an optical illusion?

e: I know you will say about, 'knowing' it is an illusion or not,

I'm English, pretty sure you've already said this before as a setup to insult my English


There are some coupled with memory though right.... I'd understand if it was a white noise kind of thing, but otherwise there must be some input coming from the creativity/memory structures within mind.






see, why aren't they ALL grey? (I know a stroke is not a neuro disorder but both are brain damage and neuro damage)

Do you agree that mental illnesses are diagnosed through the sense of behaviour and can all be faked?

TY . I am seriosuly about 50 hours behind on stuff I need to learn about but I will put them higher up the list.

SO how is alzheimers different to a stroke.. Both cause damage to brain/ neurones.

And alzheimers will effect motor functioning also. It just effects mental health first and more often, kind of theother way round to parkinsons?


Ok, so I guess some injuries could be faked also. Pain as a diagnosis tool is a strange one.

If there is an injury there should be observable damage on some level. But when it comes to beliefs/thoughts- it is not damage as such is it? So dementia could be faked but alzheimers could not- same as your arm injury- the actual damage cannot be faked but the symptoms could.





I like to argue. It really is the fastest way to learn. I ask why also, but I kind of assume the why's should not need to be asked. I know I make claims but at some point I have usually explained a why for it unless I'm under the impression that it only requires logic.



Shows a potential problem in diagnosis methods though right....

I assume that I cannot hallucinate a voice saying 'I'm going to kill you' without knowing those words 'I'm, going to kill you'. Or hallucinating a clown without seeing one. But in these other types of hallucinations such as the one Tom Cowley used, I imagine these would just appear anyway. This is why they are distinct. For this reason putting both under the term hallucination should not be so imo- it seems some are structured, and others are destruction/warp

Do you know what a delusion is?

I found out before that you were from England, but I then assumed you were an immigrant to England. I wasn't trying to insult your English -- I truly believed it wasn't your first language based on the frequency of basic errors and some of the bizarre phrases you've come up with.

Huh? Have you never had a dream containing a nonsense word (in the waking world), and it still had a meaning in the dream? Have you never had a dream where you see a particular person naked who you've never actually seen naked? I have no idea why you think you couldn't hallucinate something you'd never seen before (although obviously hallucinating words in a real language you don't know and dream-interpreting them correctly for that language would be quite unlikely.. as would finding out you ever did it).

This makes absolutely no sense.

Plz say you missed out alot of my post because I caught you out on some things.

I say, A delusion is a belief something is real

Is a dream a delusion or not? Is a lucid dream a delusion or not?

I've been under the impression for a while though that nothing is real, as everything is interpretation, and interpretation is observed and there is a feedback loop. I have my own evidence. But that is a topic for RGT as philosophy seems to be ommited from these boards because of the dependence on evidence/studies over logic.

Oh and the west midlands is not renowned for its English. I have not spent much time with a dictionary. But I even learn this from these posts. What words meant other people- how people think.

this is completely different to what you are talking about. I am saying creativity/memory. Not just memory. If I had never seen someone naked.....



I wonder if Scintillating would continue to occur in a person who becomes blinded, and if it occurs if a person is born blind. I was talking to a blind man earlier and he said that he only knows dark/black, and does not know of light- or flashes. BUt maybe he does not know how to associate the word flash with his experience.

Maybe it would make sense to somebody else. I am just describing how my logic interprets the pictures of the hallucinations compared to other hallucinations I have experience of.

Some hallucinations are simple, some are complex? I don't see why this matters (it does help physicians localize where in the brain the problem might be)

People dream **** they've never seen all the time. It's all created.

No, I just don't care to continue responding to everything all at once when I don't see real progress being made.

You know, you could have looked up the real definition of delusion. If you are working on a definition different than everyone else, you are to blame when we don't understand you.

Dreams are not delusions.

.

Yes. Created from memories, previous sensory input combined with interpretation combined with imagination combined with whatever is responsible for abstract art.

Although, maybe there are some instinctual dreams in childhood, that could resurface.

right ok



I don't see how my definition is wrong, its just shorter (and I obv missed out the word false, oops). And ommits the other persons part. Someone could have delusions when living in solitude, they just would be more difficult to be classified as such. Using the above definition, then a dream was a delusion, but is real whilst it is being experienced unless one becomes lucid. We are always in a state of dreaming anyway- its just behind interpretation.

The word 'false' in the definition is huge. As is the part that they "persist despite the evidence to the contrary." Your definition is useless (you're just calling a delusion a belief).

in a lucid dream or a remembered dream, you're aware you are dreaming so you know it's not real. This is not the case in a delusion

This is what I was trying to get gansta to say... So is a dream a delusion? (not was)

Like I said I assume logic- stop being nitty. A belief something is real would be different to, the knowledge something is real. So belief suggests 'false' or without absolute evidence in itself. Note I am just being nitty/advocating in return for your nittiness.

However I will stand by my theory that everything is a delusion to an extent. This is all based from much deeper logic regarding the universe in general.

look at the definition and tell me if a dream fits as a delusion

When I am in a dream then no it is not a delusion using this definition- it is a hallucination. All evidence is telling me my experience is real. No different to 'actual' 'concious' 'sane' reality.

It's not a goddamn hallucination either. Will you look up the words ffs? Even wiki will do.

This is not at all me being nitty. Your definition is very different than the real definition of delusion. The words you omitted make a big difference in what's going on in the mind.

And once again, why is it that you can't accept that you are wrong concerning something you clearly don't know much about? You are trying to force your idea as correct but you are nowhere near the truth. Just give it up and finally do some real learning before posting.

Yes it is. I have already seen plenty writings where dreams are considered hallucinations. There is false sensory input. And this includes to overlooked sense of the 'interpretation observing feedback loop', or self, or ego, or whatever part of your language would make sense for you.


It is not if you understood my use of the word belief opposed to knowledge as I just explained in my last post. And as I already explained, the false goes without saying considering everything which has been said so far.

I am not going to believe your ideas over mine. I will take from them what I see to be logical and derived from argument. Things are never really black and white for me except for 2+2

again I come to the conclusion on this forum, why bother? Wish I was more productive with my time

edit: PS you are not awake when you are dreaming. Hence, it's not a hallucination as most people define it

No, that doesn't solve the issue. First, beliefs can be true, but delusions are false. Second, as I already pointed out, delusions must persist in the face of contradictory evidence, something you certainly didn't mention in your definition.

The definitions of words like delusion are black and white. There is no debate, you are just wrong. (though to be complete, there can be debate about whether certain things are delusions, but this is separate from what you're bringing up)