Imagine Harden trying to drive on Oakley.

He would pass to PJ Tucker for the corner 3.

So where does TWOG rate LeBron in the all time list?

a legend:



Fun story about that game: 2p2 Fantasy League final week before the playoffs, and I have prop bets with most of the league on my winning the division. Heading into the final Sunday literally the only way I lose my bets(for like 50x league buyin) is if Rafer ****ing Alston hits 8+ 3 pointers lol fml

I know nothing about Basketball and don't give a crap, but how can someone be so obsessed with this topic online? Ffs go see your psychiatrist.

Greatest player in Cleveland Cavaliers history. They should probably retire his number.

I'm sure they will after he retires. Hell Miami probably will too, they retired Bosh's number and he obviously wasn't nearly as influential as LeBron and they both joined the team at the same time.

If he wins another title with AD in LA the Lakers might retire it too (they retired Wilt's number in a similar situation, a post-peak GOATish player who titled with them late-career).

Banned for these reasons: Baiting, Trolling, Beating a dead horse, posting about MJ/LeBron in the NBA thread.

AND You're supposed to be ban on sight due to your long history of doing those exact things, but no mods actually care to do anything nowadays in SE.

LeBron is not my hero and I couldn't care less about all your arbitrary "points".

What's his combined TZ points over the years McLovin?

TWD,

I agree with some of your basketball points but how in the hell can you actually try and act like a contested jumper is a good thing. Sometimes they are necessary yes, but youd prefer not to take them and rely on screens, kickouts, etc to get shots off. Sure, an ability to hit them at will like MJ, Kd, and yea even though I hated him Kobe makes them very valuable but it's not the tool you want to rely on. Also, taking them early in the clock is detrimental of course and popping a semi open 3 in transition is a better shot strategically than a contested long 2. It's the worst shot in basketball. Jordan just happened to be an expert at them and generally hit them within the flow of the offense.

It's 1989, there's no one in the corner.

So help me understand how finding more uncontested jumpersthan everyone else is evidence someone is not good?

From fivethirtyeight today

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...-was-the-best/

Can someone explain to me how LeBron's WAR in the graphic makes sense with this narrative

RAPTOR is a per 100 possession rating. WAR is adjusted for playing time. Jordan has the higher per possession +/-. But he only played 13 full seasons bc of retirements and a foot injury. LeBron has 17 full or close-to full (his last two years were about 3/4 of a season) seasons already so though his per possession rating is lower he has more cumulative minutes since he's played longer.

The author also didn't artificially era adjust for 20 years ago by doubling LeBron's stats and regressing on Golden State's ppg showing they'd score 400 a night in 1996, because he's doing real statistics and analysis. So that could be another thing.

Thought this passage was pretty interesting:

"Jordan’s most underrated offensive strength of all might have been his ability to generate high-quality shots (for himself and others) without turning the ball over. Only two qualified players in NBA history had a career usage rate of at least 30 percent with a turnover percentage under 10 percent — Jordan and Dominique Wilkins (rivals in a couple of iconic 1980s dunk contests). And with apologies to the Human Highlight Film, Jordan was asked to do a lot more on offense for the Bulls than Wilkins was for the Hawks. MJ assisted on nearly 25 percent of teammate baskets when he was on the court, on top of his scoring responsibilities. That made Jordan one of the better playmakers in the NBA, even as he simultaneously led the league in scoring 10 times during the 11 seasons he played between 1986-87 and 1997-98."

And this:

"All of this helps explain why Jordan’s Bulls finished in the top five in offensive efficiency every season from 1989-90 to 1996-97, except for the two Jordan spent playing baseball.5 When your best player is taking on a historic share of team possessions while also averaging nearly 1.2 points on each of those possessions, you’re going to have a historically great offense. And indeed, Chicago had three seasons — 1992, 1996 and 1997 — where its offense cleared the league average by 7 points per 100 possessions. Jordan was the engine that powered the offensive success of the Bulls’ dynasty."

#twogwasright

Here's the thing, Jordan still has a great case for GOAT (certainly for GOAT peak) without twogtroll cherrypicking numbers and using ridiculous narratives to slander LeBron (like Kobe GOAT because he took contested long 2's that LeBron rarely does, lol).

#twogGOAT

Yes but seriously, LeBron still has a somewhat decent case for GOAT career (depending on how you weigh rings), without LeStans making up narratives about the Golden State Warriors scoring 150+ every game against the '95-'96 Bulls or LeBron averaging 45+ ppg with hand checking in the 90's. It swings both ways.

I have to admit I how twog riles you guys up so much.

LeBron is the best #1 pick of all-time and I'd argue he actually exceeded expectations. I re-watched the 2003 draft and haters were chanting "OVERRATED!" as soon as David Stern made the announcement. He's had haters since he was in high school lol.

Of course he has exceeded expectations. It’s not going out on any type of limb saying that. He is the 2nd or 3rd greatest player ever.

lol at saying 2nd best player.

TWOG still hasn't answered the question where he has LeBron on the all time list.

There’s a distinction between best and greatest.

It took me 2~ days to tally it all up...

Combined TZ Points total:

-3,500,000

That’s funny !

That comes directly from LJ mouth :

“And when I say that , I really believe it !”

https://youtu.be/EYe8B--jrbs

From his POV he under achieve and rightfully so, losing twice on 4 finals from that time ..

But hey , facts never matters for lebraaawnnn side , even when the guy himself says it .
That’s why this debate will never end .

Ps: But maybe he understood the question wrongly and thought it was about final lost so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt , his almost there !