And yet they somehow won 10 games. The ultimate goal is to score points on offense, no matter how fast or slow.

Also, this has nothing to do with the fact that Kerry Collins controlled only 39% of the clock Sunday, and likely an even smaller %age for the first half alone (when the game was actually decided).

So the original comment "Peyton doesn't play defense" is still a bit silly, don't you think?

The Pats went 14-2 last season with a bad defense. Who was responsible for that?

it was probably a bit simplistic and incomplete, but the general idea is that the team around him is pretty bad (somewhat on offense, more on defense, even more on special teams), didn't project to be great even with him, and Collins made the situation that much worse with an abysmal performance. better?

people are just overreacting b/c it was an "everything went wrong" kind of week for the Colts get any kind of reasonable QB performance it doesnt look nearly that bad

There's also the idea of hubris. As in, it's great hubris to think you can be the QB, the OC, and to OC in real time at the LoS. I believe TMQ has written about it, and IMO is the reason Epi is correct about reg season vs playoffs wrt to Manning. He's got this god complex about offensive engineering, but against good teams with good packages in high leverage situations, it becomes too much. Instead of focusing on one thing he can control, he's trying to fix himself, hid audibles, and the coordinating, all in game under a lot of stress, and it's too much. His hubris won't let him delegate to a coach.

To be fair, I think BB and Brady have also fallen trap to this in recent years, specifically last year. '07 was whatever, they ran into a juggernaut pass rush and still only lost on a crazy play. But Rex embarrassed the great Belichik and Brady with a vastly inferior squad. I hope they learn from this misstep.

playoffs>>>>>>>regular season, thats wat epi taught me so im having trouble reconciling running up the score on cupcake regular season opponents with turning into a checkdown artist as double digit favorites vs a team you just eviscerated, albeit in far less meaningful game.

i just dont see how you can label brady's last 5 or so years, esp last yr, anything but a major failure.

the jets were better than the patriots at every single position last year except for QB. just really shows how great Brady was that the game was even close.

As my post above states, I agree with you, mainly just last season. Anyone labeling the 18-1 year a complete failure is a moron. Disappointing, sure, but not a complete failure. But last year, it worried me that BB and TB took on too much responsibility, which is fine in the reg season, but it rears it's head in the playoffs, especially against bright guys like Rex (whereas vs Norv it won't matter).

The two statements aren't mutually exlusive. Vastly was too strong a word, but the pats were better, in large part because of Brady. I do think the Pats were poorly prepared for that game and had no backup plan to Rex's excellent packages.

I have important news to report, the official top 5 chokers of all time list has came out and peyton manning comes in at #5. Note this is only for the 2 major sports.

1. CWebb
2. Tony Romo
3. Randy Moss
4. Lebron James
5. Peyton Manning

HM: Wilt

do you really want me to dig up all of your posts rating welker very highly? im sure you feel he is better than holmes. branch is obv better than braylon. ne te gronk/hernandez obv better than keller.

hell, id even say the ne backfield was much better than shonn poor mans benson greene and old man tomlinson.

that was just a common phrase coming out of NY last year, I'm pretty sure he was trolling

lol @ branch being better than braylon. also cotchery is better than the pats #3 wr.

and i'd rather have the jets rb's too

by the end of the season lt was completely worn down. shonn green is just pedestrian at everything.

woodhead is really good, breaks a ton of tackles and finds creases. i greatly question your eyetest if you cant see this.

benjarvus is more decisive and powerful than shonn greene, and thats his supposed strength. also the never fumbling thing is huge since shonn sucks at that.

Pats would have 7 game W/L differential and the colts only 6. Looks like Brady is more valuable.

see this is the worst thing about SE, if you're debating and you have 1 side ppl here for some reason feel the need to argue by ****ting on the other side

so if ur for manning, brady is captain checkdown whos team won 11 games without him, and if ur for brady, manning is a (and tell me if i got this right epipen) "hudge choker who only has moar mvps and better regular season stats bc of megaelite weaponz and plays in a dome"

theyre both really really awesome and probably will go down as at least 2 of the top 3 QB's of all time. the one thing that really pushes me towards manning (and this might be fishy) is i cant help but think how insane the patriots from 01-06 would have been with manning instead of brady, they might have won every super bowl

brady in those years was a decent step down from manning so the colts wouldnt have been as close to the patriots as they were, they really would have had no competition.

epippin woulda been insufferable

what 3/6 wasn't good enough ?

remember Peyton 2001 wasn't really PEYTON MANNING yet. Peyton had a ridic peak from around 2003 - 2009 or so, last year hard to say if it was a down year or the beginning of an age based decline, but either way it looks more like early decade Peyton than peak Peyton.

and I think by 2006 Brady as a pure passer was as good as Peyton. Brady 2007 had the GOAT QB season, the only thing that really changed from 06 to 07 was going from horrible WR's to great WR's, and that had a massive effect on the #'s.

2006 was the year the Pats lost to the Colts by 4 points in the AFCCG when effing Reche Caldwell dropped what should have been game winning TD.

Nah. Read first 2 pages on this thread. Peytons 04 > Bradys 07.

This thread proves that even reasonable Boston posters are terrible when going on a homer crusade.

there is no way I'm going to page 1 of this thread. I'm aware of the Peyton 04 arguments, and I'll concede the raw #'s are v close. the raw #'s also don't account for playing 1 game in a hurricane, a couple others in really tough conditions, etc.

The raw numbers also don't account for the game Peyton rested.

i actually laughed out loud at this post, thanks

and peyton rested 1 game.

Whats so infuriating with you is that there certainly is an argument Brady > Manning, your trolling just makes it very difficult to actually accept the good points you do make. You can be an elite poster when you want to, I nearly always agree with your side in the NBA debates. Why do you act like a dick?