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07-24-2013 , 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steroid Boy
where are you getting these numbers?
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post...west-mythology

1. panthers 14.9%
2. redskins 13%
3. seahawks 5.6%
4. 9ers 4.5%
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07-24-2013 , 12:17 PM
so those only take into account actual rushes and not playaction out of that formation?
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07-24-2013 , 12:18 PM
Time to play CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT with some Russell Wilson discussion (just a sampling, but I don't feel like pulling every lol quote here):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
Here's the thing about Wilson. Yeah he's sucked so far but his WRs aren't doing him any favors. They're kind of bad. Wilson might never be elite, but he definitely has a shot to be good.

Calling for his head after four games seems short sighted.
lol @ that guy saying he won't be elite

Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
LOL DIDS

Wilson is certainly the worst starting QB in the league.

Please come to your senses and play Flynn, Pete. I know you're trying to be progressive and ****, but enough is enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
Pete seems to have a ton of faith in Wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
I think playing Wilson now is both bad for our playoff chances this season and bad for Wilson's development.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
I'm just gonna say it: Wilson is even worse than TJax.

Pete picked the worst of his 3 options at QB imo


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Horton
Wilson and T Jax are negligibly different. It's certainly not wrong to assert that the Seahawks' equity is higher with T Jax than Wilson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steroid Boy
wilson sucks, flynn should 100% be starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
****, who let steroid boy in?

Steroid Boy: NFC East Posters :: Russell Wilson : NFL QBs



Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
GG Niners. I lost power with a quarter to go so I couldn't see the end. But a rookie QB on the road isn't winning very often against the Niners D.

Give Wilson some time. He's showing flashes. The dude can definitely play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildo
but is he better than blaine gabbert?
Spoiler:

NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:21 PM
Captain hindsight indeed. Wilson was the worst QB in the league thru the first 5 games of 2012.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steroid Boy
so those only take into account actual rushes and not playaction out of that formation?
They could definitely be counting a standard shotgun handoff as a "read option"
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:23 PM
We'll never doubt you again.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
Captain hindsight indeed. Wilson was the worst QB in the league thru the first 5 games of 2012.
While this is arguable, calling Wilson worse than TJax is a CAPITAL OFFENSE which should not escape ridicule
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
Here are 7 QBs rookie season's passing attempts and NY/A

1. 295, 7.41
2. 393, 6.84
3. 393, 7.06
4. 434, 7.4
5. 517, 6.87
6. 575, 6.08
7. 627, 6.18

Spoiler:

1. Big Rape
2. Wilson
3. RG3
4. Matty Ice
5. Killa Cam
6. GOAT
7. Luck


Spoiler:
Barnwell and others consistently ignore usage when talking about rookie QBs and gush over their rate stats without considering that having an elite running game and a competent defense will do wonders for a rookie QB. They also ignore the correlation between a QB being good at passing and coaches deciding they should pass.
1000 times
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:51 PM
Bucs sign Mike Williams for 6yr/40 mil.

Williams is really great, young reciever whose only really struggled because of Freeman's inaccuracy, so I'm great with it.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 12:55 PM
Plummer threw 35 passes/game at 6.2 Any/A his rookie year (9 starts, 1 late-game sub-in)
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STA654
Captain hindsight indeed. Wilson was the worst QB in the league thru the first 5 games of 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonzirra
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:10 PM
Do any/a and ny/a take into account the times when a qb drops back to pass, then ends up running for a gain?
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07-24-2013 , 01:14 PM
Looks like no to that question. It's merely (Pass yds - Sack yds) / (Pass attempts + sacks)
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07-24-2013 , 01:15 PM
no, but EPA/P does.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pudge714
Spoiler:
Barnwell and others consistently ignore usage when talking about rookie QBs and gush over their rate stats without considering that having an elite running game and a competent defense will do wonders for a rookie QB. They also ignore the correlation between a QB being good at passing and coaches deciding they should pass.
this is true but the problem is that there is also a strong correlation between a team having a poor running game and the coach deciding they should pass and between a team having a poor defense and the coach deciding they should pass. indy obv had both.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:28 PM
9er Friendly Article by Barnwell:

8-Kaep
22-PWill
25-Aldon
38-Bowman
40-Iupati
46-Staley

Seattle:

2-Wilson
24-Sherman
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:33 PM
ET tho
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07-24-2013 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildo
deep pass %:

kaep: 1st
luck: 4th
wilson: 6th
cam: 7th

brady: 20th
manning: 25th
brees: 36th

don't have any data on this but i imagine deep pass % and success rate are inversely correlated.

btw alex smith was 8th in success rate.
Sure. If they're putting up similar or better yards/play without the drive consistency, it pretty much mandates that they're getting a decent chunk of deep plays.

Definitely agree with your point about Denver/NE/NO passing more/being smarter being a part of the situation. (And that additional usage will, in a lot of cases, naturally drive down ANY/A as defenses adjust, which is part of why the high-usage/elite offensive QBs like Brees/Peyton/Brady don't distinguish themselves as much in ANY/A as, say, pure EPA.)

But I also think that's reflective of the QBs they have: Manning, Brady, and Brees are great decision-makers, comfortable making progressions and tough decisions on intermediate routes, etc. Chicken/egg to an extent tho, the young non-Luck QBs could all probably be throwing more and hopefully will next season.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildo
this is true but the problem is that there is also a strong correlation between a team having a poor running game and the coach deciding they should pass and between a team having a poor defense and the coach deciding they should pass. indy obv had both.

That's fair. I think the argument for Luck's quality has been based too much on WIM/pedigree and not enough on how impressive it is for a rookie to be close to league average ratewise with such high usage.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:44 PM
Lol at Mike Williams getting almost victor Cruz money
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:50 PM
more like lol victor cruz
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07-24-2013 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
GG Niners. I lost power with a quarter to go so I couldn't see the end. But a rookie QB on the road isn't winning very often against the Niners D.

Give Wilson some time. He's showing flashes. The dude can definitely play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildo
but is he better than blaine gabbert?
fwiw at the time i had you mixed up with former poster sharktank43 (who was the only blaine gabbert supporter in se afaik) and that post was supposed to be making fun of you, not rustle. sorry bro.
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phildo
fwiw at the time i had you mixed up with former poster sharktank43 (who was the only blaine gabbert supporter in se afaik) and that post was supposed to be making fun of you, not rustle. sorry bro.
While this takes a little fun out of my retrospective burn, it reminds me I probably shouldn't ever talk about adj.ustable ra.te mort.gages
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Sandwich
While this takes a little fun out of my retrospective burn, it reminds me I probably shouldn't ever talk about adj.ustable ra.te mort.gages
For the first part of that initial discussion all I kept thinking was "Sando has lost his goddamn mind"
NFL Offseason Thread Quote
07-24-2013 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iggymcfly
Ryan a tier ahead of RG3 and Russell Wilson is completely indefensible. In his best season out of 5 with one of the best receiving duos in the league, he still couldn't match what they did as rookies with average help.
Clearly we have differing opinions on the importance of usage and sample size. I don't know what part of this you don't understand. In your mind you've decided that 11 games (conveniently ignoring 5 bad ones) is enough to anoint a guy 2nd best QB ITL, virtually NO ONE else agrees with you on this. Yet you keep arguing it in every post you make, knowing full well that no one is going to change their mind. This will be my last response to you for this NFL season and I hope others follow suit as some have already alluded to doing.

I don't necessarily think you are trolling in the sense that you don't believe the things you say, and I will give you props for putting more money where your mouth is on Wilson > Brees (even tho I think you are totally FOS about what would happen if they switched teams); but you are 100% without a doubt trolling in the sense that you constantly steer the conversation toward stupid arguments where you are basically the only person on the others side and no one else is going to change their mind no matter how many stats your cherry pick to support your argument. The amount of time this forum has spent arguing about Vick is ****ing pathetic and it is 100% your fault. Now that you are realizing your horse might not even be a starter you are picking a new one who is sure to help you derail conversations for years to come.

Last edited by NLSoldier; 07-24-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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