Johnny,

Ronda's name is based on so much more than fighting. She had a whole gender to herself as the flag bearer.

I was just looking up something on Louisa May Alcott just now. I was doing an image search and pulled up one of her quotes. What was included in the 8 related images?



She's like Lance Armstrong imo. Niche sport that she became main stream through due to a myriad of factors. Was Danica Patrick huge because Nascar pushed her? She was already a star before she switched from Indy cars. Just became bigger with more exposure.

Conor is just a completely different set of factors. They're both in the UFC but it's a loose correlation imo.

In closing: GIRL POWER

Yeah we are agree on everything you are saying here but I'm not clear if you think that changes what my original point was or if I just made it poorly. I never thought that Conor and Ronda were identical or even that her rise was similarly achieved. I was using her as an example of how the UFC does have a hand in these things, and how a lot can be achieved with their promotion and placement. Also, I think some of what Conor has achieved was because of not only what he was allowed, and provided by them, but also fortunate timing. Timing in fights that became available to him. Fights that became unavailable to him. And more than that, the huge hype the sport was enjoying because of the adjacent phenomenon of Ronda right as he ascended.

You may ask why I bother to point this **** out. It's to counter the semi-God narrative that the UFC needs this guy because everything he touches is golden. He was a master of taking advantage using both elite fighting skill and ultra elite promotion ability, but he is running hot as the sun on top of it.

The UFC can go a long way toward making a star if they don't expose themselves along the way. They can also let someone wither on the vine without the proper help. I'm interested to see what happens with Choi, as he seems like a pretty good parallel to Conor in terms of the type of fighter he is and the direction his career is going minus every bit of marketability and hype. If he knocks out cub and still is going to prove himself for several more fights to even earn a spot in the conversation it will illustrate the advantage Conor enjoyed on his rise in terms of matchmaking.

Nah just johnny truant dude and his hard on for Conor.

Really boring to read the same nonsense over and over again.

Lo****ingl at the speculation over Conor's missus btw, what a load of ****e.

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Think the UFC should have asked Conor to defend the FW belt first to give him a chance to do what he said he would do - defend both simultaneously. Surely this would have been Conor's only sensible option in the event of a loss to Alvarez anyway.

Handing the title to a crybaby who has pulled out of numerous fights is a rotten show.

You disliking what I write is as encouraging as respectable posters agreeing with me.

Wasn't Aldo/Edgar for the interim belt? If so why shouldn't Aldo get the belt now? Conor has fought 3 times since he won the 145 belt and not one of the fights was a defense. Now Conor says he's taking a year off bc of his kid. No way Conor should have the 145 belt now.

Aldo didn't defend his belt for a year before but it was bc he was hurt, not bc he was fighting 3 other fights and then taking a year off.

They stripped Conor of the FW belt like last week actually.

Conor didn't say he's taking a year off

I have sympathy for the point you've emphasized in this thread, but lol at using PRIDE to make that point. PRIDE was the king of pointless belts and weird defenses against sumo wrestlers.

I just miss seeing everyone fight everyone. Like I said I know I'm romanticizing it.

I think that's a strawman.

Everyone still largely fights everyone.

This is all extrapolation bc Conor wouldn't rematch Aldo due to his aim being the lw belt. Nate just became an unexpected detour that he then had to right his wrong. It's melodramatic to say otherwise.

Woodley wanted no part of Wonderboy. They fought. There was no clear opponent for Bisping - once there was, Romero, that became the fight. Conor fought Mendes and was booked to fight RDA. He'll end up fighting Khabib - who has a moderate claim to the shot currently but isn't necessarily entitled after his layoff and one notable victory.

Aldo is a big, unprecedented point, yes, but that is only part of it. There are a lot of people who are held up waiting and passed over at now two weight classes. It's questionable whether he defends either belt before jumping to a third and although I'm along for that ride, defending any of this **** is as justified or having integrity as a sport is the emotional argument IMO.

Okay but you're shifting the goalposts.

When you talk about missing the days when everybody fought each other. Well there's always been one guy that might be the exception to the rule: Noons w/ Diaz, Woodley w/ Lombard, etc.

So when you're saying you're missing the old days, I'm saying those are still today.

I think saying weight classes being held up, especially two, is hyperbolic sans the time frame of Conor/Diaz II. The HW weight class was molasses with Cain and 145 was with Aldo too.

How long was 135 held up with Cruz?

You can say the circumstances were different, but we're literally talking time-frames here.

The time frame of Conor/Diaz I (which was obv supposed to be RDA) and Conor/Alvarez weren't a matter of passing people over and screwing over 145 imo. It was a noble pursuit.

Would we really have complained if the GSP/Anderson superfight went down about all the poor guys who didn't get to fight for the title during that time frame?

I don't weep for the Max Holloways of the world, just like I wouldn't have for Thales Leites, Patrick Cote, Josh Koscheck, etc.

You are right about goalpost shifting, but that wasn't purposely done...I answered RB's question about blaming Conor after all he has done to make the UFC "better" and it got conflated with the rest of the discussion about him/vs the UFC creating him.

I see your other point about timeframe too, and the fact that the dude is so active neutralizes some of the argument against him as well. The hold up in those weight classes are ongoing for more reasons than activity, though. He jumped the line both times, threatening to do it a third. His career ascension has been unfettered and even helped-even allowed to be corrected--while Frankie, max, Aldo, khabib's momentum and trajectory were arguably, and potentially irreparably disrupted, and likely will continue to be as a consequence. The two most likely fights according to many are Diaz jumping in line for the belt and going for the WW belt. As noble a pursuit as t was, simply so he could hold one belt on each shoulder FW is now a joke that will take a long time to recover.

The business end of it makes some sense, but acting like he is doing more good than harm is 100% dependent on your definition of good and harm. Don't give a **** about other fighters? Money is the only measure of success and pursuit worth the trouble? The denominator must be as broad as possible at all cost? Okay then.

Conor fights every 3months but somehow that's not enough because RDA backed out and then he faught a rematch that broke the ppv records. So what exactly should he have done??? Why should he fight Aldo again when there are so many other fighters more deserving? I feel like he haters will not pick no matter what Conor does.

Frankie: Although true this is like complaining that Faber didn't get his due shot this go around.

Max: He's still a relative neophyte, one who lost to Conor and only now is really in the position to have a legit claim to a title shot. I don't see him as any different than El Cucuy. Ferg is actually more of a finisher.

Aldo: been discussed ad nauseum.

Khabib: Simply untrue. The only man other than Darrell Horcher he's fought in over two and half years is Michael Johnson.

Yes, although somewhat defensible, him fighting Diaz next over Khabib/Ferg winner would nullify much of my argument(s).

It might likely happen, but we can argue the facts to this point.

Khabib deserves the shot based on the fact that he is the best fighter. If he doesn't there is no way Conor deserved the first shot at Aldo.

The rest of it, we can dissect it and cut any situation to read either way. I agree with every single point you have made. We are just having a debate at this point, which while enjoyable is circular.

This is the only sport I'm a fan of. I've always found it excruciating to listen to the same dudes talk about who is the best qb of all time and exhaust the same argument over and over again year after year all based on subjectivness. A sincere thanks for allowing me to participate in the same thing, I finally get it.

I thought he wasn't fighting till his kid was born? That is in 6 months, plus schedule time so his fight wouldn't be for like 9 months.

That's not what he said. He said he said he's able to fight any time but they need to come to him with a new offer. He then said he has a kid coming and he'll take some time off if they don't come talk to him. Maybe the discussion behind closed doors is different but we don't have that information.

And Fergie doesn't deserve it cause he's on a 8 or 9 fight streak with a lot of stoppages?

Khabib was out for 2 years and has only beaten some complete can and Michael Johnson who's never gonna be a champ.

Interim champion is a pretend belt, at the very least Aldo should have to fight next in line to claim the title. Will still be seen by many as worthless.

Personally I'd like to see Conor Aldo again.

I'll say it again, taking the belt from Conor and awarding it to Aldo is a poor show, especially if Conor hasn't refused to defend the FW belt next. We've no idea if he has or not.

Respected posters agree with him though donk.

Dude it's a ****ing power play. They told Conor publicly he had to defend FW next or give up the belt after Diaz 2. Then they gave him the lw shot anyway without stripping it. Then they told him he had to give up belt again. Then he said he wants a share of the company before he fights again. Then he said he'll wait em out. They probably threatened to take it again and he said, correctly, that he will be the true champ until whoever the paper champ is beats him. He probably cares less than you and his other gushing fanbois do.

Fergie's starched killers like Edson, RDA, and Josh the Punk Thompson.

Khabib's only good win is decisioning RDA.

Still stings a bit, huh? You are sweet kid.