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WW3 trigger? WW3 trigger?

08-17-2010 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikTheDread
News flash: John Bolton is bat-guano insane.
Insane? I dunno.... Extremely angry, heartless, intolerant monist? Yes...
08-18-2010 , 09:39 AM
He's suggesting that the Israelis attack quickly, while Russian engineers and scientists are still there. What could possibly go wrong?
08-18-2010 , 10:04 AM
I think the next large international conflict concerning two or more major powers (don't know if it will be WW3 per se) will take place in the Caucasus region, but that is just a guess.
08-18-2010 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
A senior Iranian military official says Iran will take full control of the Strait of Hormuz should Washington opt to launch aggression against Iran.


"The country's armed forces which are under the (Islamic Revolution) Leader's command are in the highest state of preparedness." head of the Operations Department of the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Iranian Armed Forces Brigadier General Ali Shademani was quoted by Mehr News Agency as saying on Tuesday.

"Three measures are in store to counter any potential aggression against the country", he said.

"The first action would be to take full control of the Strait of Hormuz whereby we wouldn't allow any move by anybody", the top military official underlined.

He said the enemy 'will be brought to its knees' as soon as it makes a move.

As for the second measure, General Shademani said, "We are keeping a close watch on all American military bases in Afghanistan and Iraq."

"With the slightest move against Iran, we will paralyze the troops stationed in those bases and won't allow them to make any move
." he stressed.

The top general also elaborated on the third plan.

"Israel is the United States' backyard", he highlighted, "So we will disturb the peace there."

"The US and Israel well know that we can do it", he added.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/139100.html
08-18-2010 , 10:25 AM
That is nothing new. That has been Iran's play for a long time now.
08-18-2010 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montius
I think the next large international conflict concerning two or more major powers (don't know if it will be WW3 per se) will take place in the Caucasus region, but that is just a guess.
No money in the Caucasus, everybody is solid and really no reasons for major powers to get jiggy.
08-18-2010 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdCheckRaise
No money in the Caucasus, everybody is solid and really no reasons for major powers to get jiggy.
Umm...what?
08-18-2010 , 10:45 AM
If Bush didn't get involved when Russia marched into Georgia none will ever get seriously involved (major power vs major power). Not to mention that there is no real reason for anyone get exited about. Yeah ok its a gas pipe connection to Middle Asia but Middle Asia is increasingly reluctant to ship that gas in the direction of Europe...so...neah...no reasons.
08-18-2010 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdCheckRaise
If Bush didn't get involved when Russia marched into Georgia noone will ever get seriously involved (major power vs major power).
False.

Turkey, Iran, Russia, (and to a lesser degree) the US all have an interest in what happens in the region, for obvious reasons.

The only reason the US did not get involved in the Georgia incident is because they could not afford to with their involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. As those wrap up, you will probably see a more rebalanced focus from the US wrt the rest of the world.
08-18-2010 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montius
False.

Turkey, Iran, Russia, (and to a lesser degree) the US all have an interest in what happens in the region, for obvious reasons.
Neither Turkey or Iran are major powers, regional powers at best and both have been implementing "do not piss off Russia" policy.

Quote:
The only reason the US did not get involved in the Georgia incident is because they could not afford to with their involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq. As those wrap up, you will probably see a more rebalanced focus from the US wrt the rest of the world
SO you saying that if US wouldn't be involved with Afghanistan and Iraq, Bush would have risk open confrontation with a nuke-superpower (not really superpower anymore so their only response can be nuclear) over something that is going on in Russian backyard? Yeah...common sence...ya has it!
08-18-2010 , 11:09 AM
i believe iran and Israel are about to start a war with one another...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhLrtrelJrw
08-18-2010 , 11:15 AM
Bolton is a draft dodger who only wants war when he's too old to get called up.
Quote:
Though Bolton supported the Vietnam War, he declined to enter combat duty, instead enlisting in the National Guard and attending law school after his 1970 graduation. "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy," Bolton wrote of his decision in the 25th reunion book. "I considered the war in Vietnam already lost."
08-18-2010 , 11:19 AM
chances on a scale of 1-10 of Israel attacking Iran this weekend ?

1 = planes are in they sky ready to hit the reactors, no doubt.
10 = no way never will Israel attack Iran, unless attacked 1st.
08-18-2010 , 11:25 AM
The real threat is Russia imo. That country is divided between commies, fascist, foreigners and corrupt politicians.
08-18-2010 , 11:28 AM
This weekend 10, overall 1.
08-18-2010 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98342324
The real threat is Russia imo. That country is divided between commies, fascist, foreigners and corrupt politicians.
i think you described just about every country on earth.
08-18-2010 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdCheckRaise
Neither Turkey or Iran are major powers, regional powers at best and both have been implementing "do not piss off Russia" policy.
Greater regional powers coming into conflict have a tendency to exacerbate into larger situations.

If Turkey can manage to gain access throughout the entire Caucasus (which is why its diplomatic issues with Armenia are so important right now), it gains access to the Caspian Sea (and Jiggs can tell you how valuable that place is). And then from there to the central Asian countries that are ethnically Turkish. It also has a very close relationship with Azerbaijan, which is significant in a number of ways.

Iran has several interests in the region. It is traditionally the area where Persia and Russia have conflict with one another. Also there is the fact that Iran has a fairly good relationship with Armenia and sees Azerbaijan very much as a potential problem because of their population in northern Iran.

Russia clearly has an interest in that area for obvious reasons, and the US has a fairly close relationship with Azerbaijan, and of course Georgia.

The point is that there are a lot of very significant players operating in this very small geographic region that has a long history of various ethnic and national tensions. In the larger picture you have the geopolitical game being played between Russia, the US, Turkey, and Iran. And then in the smaller picture you have the smaller regional actors playing (Armenia and Azerbaijan tensions, Georgia resisting Russian influence, tensions in northern Caucasus with Islamist movements, etc) a game of their own. The thing that connects the two games is that very local issues and concerns have the very real and potential ability to draw in the larger players of the game. This certainly wouldn't be the first time something transpired in that particular manner to lead to a major global conflict.

Quote:
SO you saying that if US wouldn't be involved with Afghanistan and Iraq, Bush would have risk open confrontation with a nuke-superpower (not really superpower anymore so their only response can be nuclear) over something that is going on in Russian backyard? Yeah...common sence...ya has it!
No, Russia simply put would not have done what it did had the US not been tied up in Afghanistan and Iraq. As the US withdraws from those areas, its attention will return to a more balanced one.
08-18-2010 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montius
Greater regional powers coming into conflict have a tendency to exacerbate into larger situations.

If Turkey can manage to gain access throughout the entire Caucasus (which is why its diplomatic issues with Armenia are so important right now), it gains access to the Caspian Sea (and Jiggs can tell you how valuable that place is).
your assessment of the region is very accurate but somehow you getting to completely opposite conclusion. There are few actions by regional players that can knock this balanced situation off (Azeri going to war with Armenia, Georgia behaving irrationally etc) but overall there is a pretty good understanding between major powers that there wont be any major military movements against one another...On the side note, as someone who grew up there i can tell you that there is deep hate between most of the ethnic people living in that region and so far only presence of major players from outside of that region prevented locals from deciding some questions once and for all.
08-18-2010 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdCheckRaise
your assessment of the region is very accurate but somehow you getting to completely opposite conclusion. There are few actions by regional players that can knock this balanced situation off (Azeri going to war with Armenia, Georgia behaving irrationally etc) but overall there is a pretty good understanding between major powers that there wont be any major military movements against one another...On the side note, as someone who grew up there i can tell you that there is deep hate between most of the ethnic people living in that region and so far only presence of major players from outside of that region prevented locals from deciding some questions once and for all.
Meanwhile, we had every wacko RW think tank in America (Heritage Foundation, chief among them) beating the war drums when Russia recently took Georgia behind the woodshed...

The U.S. and Russia and China have a nice little arrangement for now, but that situation can change in a moment's notice, especially as new exploration continues to confirm that the Caspian has a bit of natural gas, but not much oil. Does that gas go north then west through Russia? East to China? Or another way that benefits the West?
08-18-2010 , 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiggsCasey
Meanwhile, we had every wacko RW think tank in America (Heritage Foundation, chief among them) beating the war drums when Russia recently took Georgia behind the woodshed...
They always do...nothing clear heads like a threat of being nuked
by 2000 warheads...

Quote:
The U.S. and Russia and China have a nice little arrangement for now, but that situation can change in a moment's notice, especially as new exploration continues to confirm that the Caspian has a bit of natural gas, but not much oil. Does that gas go north then west through Russia? East to China? Or another way that benefits the West
China is pretty satisfied by gulping most of the gas available in Turkmanistan (4th proven gas reserve in the world). The only question about Azeri gas is it going to Europe via South Stream (russia) or NABUCCO. Neither one is looking good right now.
08-18-2010 , 07:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikTheDread
News flash: John Bolton is bat-guano insane.
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/e...8/15/id/367517

Quote:
Eagleburger: World's Going to War Over Iranian Nukes

Eagleburger clearly shared Bolton's alarm at Friday's developments.

"There will be a real blow up," Eagleburger told Fox News host Neil Cavuto. "Somebody will end up using one of these things.

"If Iran gets the weapon it's going to use it," added Eagleburger, who served in four presidential administrations, including a brief stint as secretary of State under former President George H.W. Bush. "I think they're on the way to getting it, and we're going to let it happen.... And Israel will certainly be the first target. And the world's going to go to war over this. It very much has a potential of happening . . . As sure as I'm sitting here, I know it's coming."

"When you're as old as I am," he told Cavuto, "if you remember how much this sounds like the workup to WWII, when everybody was letting things go by, letting things happen, and nobody was doing anything to stop what was clearly a track toward war. And we're doing it again, we're doing it again.

"We know enough about nuclear weapons that we know this thing is going to happen. It may well be a historic time. The issue is going to be whether the Israelis decide at some point they have to act.

"If they do, it will be for reasons that I at least understand, but the world will not understand them. And the Israelis will be attacked for doing what they have to do to protect themselves, but it probably won't be enough," he said.

Eagleburger predicted that Israel would unfairly suffer international condemnation if it attacks Iran's nuclear facilities.

"What would you do if you were an Israeli and somebody said he was going to build a nuclear weapon and it was going to be used against Israel?" he said.
These hawks really know how to scare the **** out of people.
08-18-2010 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShttsWeak
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/e...8/15/id/367517



These hawks really know how to scare the **** out of people.
Only paranoid schizos.
Quote:
"If Iran gets the weapon it's going to use it,"
Anyone sane can stop taking him serious here and laugh at him frothing at the mouth, showering the journalist with spittle.

Yes, Iran want nukes so they can commit suicide with mutual destruction.

It is a funny rant, though.
08-18-2010 , 08:06 PM
grunch: John McCain?
08-18-2010 , 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by random hater
Only paranoid schizos.Anyone sane can stop taking him serious here and laugh at him frothing at the mouth, showering the journalist with spittle.

Yes, Iran want nukes so they can commit suicide with mutual destruction.

It is a funny rant, though.
^^this....

the chickenhawks insisted the same thing about Saddam's Iraq throughout 2002-2003... fortunately, the world is on to their fear card rhetoric...
08-19-2010 , 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdCheckRaise
your assessment of the region is very accurate but somehow you getting to completely opposite conclusion. There are few actions by regional players that can knock this balanced situation off (Azeri going to war with Armenia, Georgia behaving irrationally etc) but overall there is a pretty good understanding between major powers that there wont be any major military movements against one another...On the side note, as someone who grew up there i can tell you that there is deep hate between most of the ethnic people living in that region and so far only presence of major players from outside of that region prevented locals from deciding some questions once and for all.
You realize basically the exact same thing could have been said wrt to minor local regional issues in the Balkans in the years leading up to 1914...

About that last bit: That is part of what I am talking about. The area's geography has historically allowed different ethnicities and nationalist groups to persist, and makes it very difficult for any one country to completely dominate and eradicate local sources of power. Given that the area has also historically been a point of conflict between the different regional powers...you have a situation that can very easily get out of hand and escalate very quickly.

      
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