There's a pretty damn good reason why he hasn't been charged. That's because with the evidence that we know about, he would be found not guilty. He would be found not guilty in Florida, Massachusetts, Washington, New York, California, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Hawaii, pick any other state.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1215

The rest of your post is too lol worthy to even bother with. You hate the south, you hate conservatives, lol rednecks blah blah.

hello pot meet kettle

Just another example of liberal Hollywood elites palling around with known murderers. Has she no shame?

right, because you say so, the 911 call and his admission that he followed the victim with a gun would not be enough to charge him with assault leading to voluntary manslaughter... He wouldn't have even gotten a permit to carry in Massachusetts, and he has not afaik even claimed that he tried to retreat so he would have failed that standard too. But instead you have an innocent dead kid and no charges but that's ok because hurr durr libruls

I'm sorry you're so defensive.

if you can give me an example of where I've done this you have a point.

He can get a carry permit in Mass. Not in Boston, but Mass is a may issue state with some of the rural jurisdictions being shall issue. You're being obtuse if you think it's impossible, or even difficult, to get a concealed carry permit in Mass or NY.

Approaching a person with a concealed gun is not a crime. Talking to a person with a concealed gun is not a crime. Not following orders from a 911 operator is not a crime. Absolutely everything from the moment they first speak to each other to the moment the witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, with Zimmerman screaming for help, is conjecture. Zimmerman can say whatever he likes, and unless there's something to contradict him, it'll hold up in court.

So, no, there isn't enough evidence for assault or manslaughter.

k I have to apologize for being combative, I now agree with you. For whatever reason I had assumed he was brandishing the gun. In looking around this thing has really been reported badly (in my defense lol). I still think that his attitude is reflective of a broader problem, but admittedly that is speculation and when it comes to the stand your ground law it may or may not be applicable in this case based on whether he says he attempted to retreat or not. I guess from what we know now you are right in that he really can't be charged in any jurisdiction. My bad...

My only one hangup about this is that he says on the 911 call "they always get away" which I think could be evidence that he intended to somehow physically stop him

It's the politard forum, if it wasn't combative it wouldn't be any fun. Yes, this has been reported badly, imo. To be honest, I think this guy is a straight up murderer, but what I think and what is provable are very different. Enjoyed the debate.

Theoretical question:

If we could guarantee that 400,000 fewer people would die every year if cigarettes were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

If we could guarantee that 75,000 fewer people would die every year if alcohol were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

If we could guarantee that 30,000 fewer people would die every year if private automobiles were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

If we could guarantee that 1,000 fewer children would die every year if children swimming were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

If we could guarantee that 40 fewer people would die every year if skiing were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

If we could guarantee that 1000 fewer children would die every year if knives were illegal, would it be worth it to you?

Just wondering how important a human life is in your opinion.

Zimmerman might soon wish he were in jail...

Derp...CNN helpfully corrects the lawyer, lol.

Interesting. Should indicate his statements to the police must have been fairly convincing since they were unfiltered by a defense attorney. I know I sure as hell wouldn't talk to the police without a lawyer if I were in this situation.

Might be defense attorney spin, but fwiw...


CNN

Unless he was Black.

b

lulz

No. All things have infinite causes. Which sort of makes someone wonder how you have decided that this one cause is the one worth talking about, and not the McDonalds one, which despite your earlier statement, IS IN FACT causal to the death of Martin in this case, although obliquely so.

I'm sure those are all accurate. The problem is, there are literally an infinite number of things that are ALSO accurate, and also would have led to Trayvon still being alive in this specific circumstance.

Which is why, when trying to figure out which ones are useful and which ones are just cheap point-scoring, the relevant question is more like:

If the US had stricter gun control laws, its citizens would be better off, overall.

I know thats harder than your butterfly effect argument, but its the only version that is actually honest and relevant and logical.

why does everyone on this site worry about racists? most f you wouldn't be able to pick a racist out of a group without profiling, which is a racist act.to find a true racist ask a white person when was the last time they invited their best black friend over for dinner and conversly ask a black person when they invited their best white friend over for dinner. you may be surprised by some of the answers and looks you get.and it doesn't have to be about race only to be a bigot. ask your friends when was the last time they invited a known gay person for dinner. how bout the last time you invited a known felon? you see in some way most folks are bigoted about something. its just the way of the world.i bet you could use this site as an example. how many contributers know a racist? and then ask how many of them would invite those racists over for dinner. if you say no then you must be a bigot against racists. i'm not saying there is anything wrong with that ,but we all have to be bigots bout something.and being a bigot is what racists were called back in the day. gl all

So what you're saying is that you have racist friends, you sometimes even invite them over for dinner and let them use your bathroom and everything?

what i'm saying is that i know racists. how bout you?

I didn't realize this was basically a huge apartment complex. Is that wrong? I thought when a black kid walking in a neighborhood would cause alarm, this was a small gated "high end" subdivision or something where everyone knew each other and he was out of place.

I'm not sure how you could classify a kid walking in a neighborhood with 260 units (500ish people?) as suspicious for being there.

Yeah, the initial reports definitely gave this impression. "Gated community" is not generally used to describe apartment complexes around here.

Some of my best friends are racists, or at least have racist tendencies. It bothers me and I dislike it, but they have been friends for over 20 years. They are also intolerant of Muslims, gays, etc. I dislike it and they know how I feel about it, but they are still friends. They are all white, by the way. All of my black friends are not racist, but some do have the "black chip on their shoulder".

The reality of the situation is that most white people I've ever met that aren't younger than me are at least partially racist. Hell, my mom is racist. My wife locks the car door when we drive through black neighborhoods.

I live with it. One of my friends says I'm some sort of bleeding heart type dude who loves black people when I say things about black people simply not being anywhere as dangerous as people think. Like I've said, I've gotten into many altercations in my life when I was younger, and all of them were with white kids, never once with any black kids, and I grew up in a very "black" city.

It must be social influence or media influence. People where I live are simply scared of black men and don't want to live in black neighborhooods, or go to black clubs/bars, etc etc etc.

It's just the way it is for my age demographic and older. Is it getting better? Sure. Is it still there though? Absolutely.

I've read quite a few scenarios people have played out of how the confrontation could have played out, but I didn't see any that put a lot of weight into the screams and what would be possible and not likely for a fight to be going on and screams at the same time

(i skipped through a bunch of the clutter debates pretty quickly, so if this was brought up, I apologize)

So the screaming seemed pretty constant. It seems to me that whoever was screaming wasn't actively engaging in throwing punches or being hit by punches (at least in the face). I've never tried to scream while getting punched in the face, so I could be wrong. And a stomach punch would likely stop the screaming for a few seconds at least.

The scenario that seems the most likely to me is whoever was screaming was being held down. I'm trying to imagine if it is feasible for someone to be screaming for help and not be submissive in whatever was going on. For some reason it seems that it I were being held down and was trying to muster up strength to attack I would stop screaming, but thats just an assumption I'm not going to test out.

I find it hard to believe that Martin could have held Zimmerman down by strength alone. Yes he may have been able to keep him down by beating on him, but it seems that the screams (assuming they were Zimmerman's) wouldn't have been so consistent.

But to refute my own point I also find it hard to believe someone could have someone in an obvious submissive position (if they are crying for help) for so long and still decide to shoot them.

Like if Zimmerman confronted and tried to detain Martin, then Martin popped him one, then Zimmerman either tackled him or showed him the gun causing Martin to freak out shouting for help, why would he shoot him?

Its all pretty curious. Maybe they will release Martin's other injuries besides the gunshot and it will help paint a clearer picture.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...82N0CU20120324


From the article:

Emphasis is mine.

Yep. The good ole internet is batting a thousand. Now it turns out that Zimmerman had helped raise money for an African American church. Last time I heard, raising money for African American churches wasn't something that the kind of racist Zimmerman supposedly was would do. Guess that one just got blown out of the water.

have you seen the interviews with the other neighborhood watch guy who defends zimmerman? guy is ridiculous. "well i'm not a racist but we've been having a lot of problems with young black males." ya, aight.

I really don't want to have to censor myself to keep this thread from becoming further ruined with racial and gun sideshow debates that are already ruining it.

My point was I initially thought it was a neighborhood where a black kid would be out of place. This has no implications other than how it was written. The fact that it was a big apartment complex and a kid walking down the street causes alarm makes it even more pathetic.

edit: when I say black as out of place, try not to think of it as a race thing and get in a frenzy. I say it as a descriptive term, the same as if it was a senior citizens community and there was a teenager walking around at night. Or adult that no one knew walking around a children's summer camp.