you can do better than that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Zimmerman strikes me more as the obsessive mall cop wannabe than a guy just out to hassle black people:

Japan
Scotlande
Hungary
Ireland
Spain
Italy
Australia
Greece
New Zealand
Germany
Austria
Canada
France
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Switzerland
United States (up in the top right corner obv)

no sorry man, im all out for the night. As if you hadn't already exasperated me completely your anti-southern bigotry has pissed me off enough to not care anymore how muddled your logic is.

it's not a slippery slope argument, it's a floodgate. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people? Are you really under the impression that hundreds of thousands of innocent people are arrested and charged with murder solely because they were found to have failed to retreat? You should contact the innocence project they'd love to hear about this amazing revelation.

You could obviously make a different looking chart by including somalia etc. But I tried to choose countries that were semi-like the united states.

My post had nothing to do with this

hundreds OR thousands bro.... OR thousands.

I'm talking about the number of people that legitimately defend themselves that you would see twist in the wind.

there is a list of states and countries in there....

It seems to me that that this statute imports a new definitional standard for the reasonable person (i.e. that it's not not unreasonable to retaliate and that retreat is not the first option for the reasonable person).

lol, is this real life? You get mad at the guy for hyperbole and write the bolded? lololol

But I guess as long as private citizens have to take mandatory classes on firearm safety there's no chance anything could go wrong here.

It's not? DO TELL!

LOL NO

In other words, you have a license to retaliate with deadly force if you fear for your life even if retreating is an option?

This would be a fantastic, well-reasoned point if anyone was arguing that every single gun owner is incapable of harnessing the power they possess, but sadly nobody is

Like George Zimmerman?

Like this guy that chased down someone that stole his car radio and stabbed him to death?

Like any of these cases?

LOL NEBLIS

It's not very cut and dry. There's only one eye witness to the case, and that eye witness confirms part of the story that Zimmerman is telling. Here's a possible defense scenario:

Zimmerman was following Martin while on the phone with the police, Martin was on the phone with his gf. At some point Zimmerman say's "he's running". At the same time Martin is telling his gf he's going to just walk fast. The defense will claim that this increase in speed is what Zimmerman was referring to.

Then Zimmerman gets out of his car to question Martin. As he approaches Martin he says "what are you doing here?" while Martin says "why are you following me?". You need to realize, at this point, nobody has committed a crime, it's not illegal to approach and question somebody in your neighborhood. It's annoying, but it's not illegal.

This is the point where Martin's phone disconnected from his gf. Zimmerman will claim that Martin pushed him, and then took a swing at him. Then Zimmerman turned and ran from Martin around the back of the building. Martin pursued Zimmerman and tackled him from behind. Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman where he proceeded to throw punches while Zimmerman was effectively defenseless, all the while Zimmerman was screaming for help. This is the part where the eye witness confirms Zimmerman's story.

Finally, after a minute of so, Zimmerman managed to free his gun and fired a single shot into Martin, killing him.

Even in a duty to retreat state, if this is the story at trial and there isn't any physical evidence or eye witnesses to contradict it. Zimmerman walks.

My mistake, the number is still laughable since the duty to retreat includes allowing for proportional measures if it's not reasonably safe to do so. I doubt you could find me one example of someone unreasonably prosecuted who legitimately might have tried to get away and then only killed the aggressor because it was impossible to do so. This law goes beyond way beyond that.

the majority being southern states...

and I'm saying he's a paranoid nut job who would do this in any state regardless of social attitudes and state law. Given that's he's acted like a paranoid nut job for years I think I'm standing on pretty firm ground, and speculating wildly to make this situation fit your worldview.

I really can't get over this. NeBlis, after first refusing to respond to the article because it's "hyperbolic bull****", claims the author is making these arguments:

Why should anybody take you seriously?

You're trying to mentally diagnose him to fit your worldview apparently. There is no way a do gooder, wanna be cop neighborhood watch type would do this in Massachusetts or New York imo you can call that "wild speculation" but I don't think it fits that states where carrying guns is unheard of would have neihborhood watch captains who think they're upstanding citizens carrying illegally. I'm not a provincial snob, there's plenty of problems here too, but the tough guy vigilante justice make my day crap is a southern mentality.

As long as I'm gif bombing ITT, the one that applies now is:

You are correct. I have seen someone killed at the hands of special forces exactly zero times with my own eyes.

However, I am hardly going through contortions or gymnastics. Just out of curiosity, I looked up bare handed killing techniques on the internet just to see what was out there about it. Something that immediately popped up was about Nancy Wake. Nancy was a special forces operative for the SOE in WWII.

That's from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Wake

Here's another article about her. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...otte-Gray.html



That's a picture of her in her 90's standing next to Cate Blanchett. If you notice, she's not that big. She was probably a little taller in her prime. In internet world, it must seem like an impossibility that this delicate little lady could kill a Nazi in one blow. In reality, it's different.

Contortions? Gymnastics? Hardly.

There isn't a single state in the nation where carrying guns is unheard of to my knowledge. There's a couple ridiculous cities, but those will be going away soon. Lol at comparing this guy to your average neighborhood watch do gooder. It's quite plain from the 911 recording we all heard, the dozens and dozens of 911 calls over the years, and his various interactions with his neighbors, that this guy is a nut. If you honestly think this guy is an average joe who got carried away, then we're way too far apart in our perspective to have an intelligent conversation.

I didn't say the word "average" lol@ trying to work that word into my argument.

This guy was so ostracized that after his dozens and dozens of phone calls, his overtly racist attitude and his various interactions with neighbors that he was still the neighborhood watch captain. you are trying to argue against a straw man that has me saying this is normal behavior in the South, I have never said that. All i have said is that this is a clear side effect of a tough guy mentality leading to terrible laws based on fear that have bad real world consequences.

Crime is at it's lowest rate ever and all you hear amongst right wing politicians, especially in the south, is tough on crime rhetoric. Right wing media is littered with disproportionately covered stories about individual crimes and neighborhoods under attack and good god-fearing white folk getting raped and robbed.

It's blatantly obvious that this atmosphere is responsible for many terrible aspects of the southern justice system, including why this clown hasn't been charged, because even though he admittedly followed and confronted the guy with a gun, in Florida that doesn't mean he did anything wrong. When you legislate based on irrational fear, you get irrational consequences.

2, 1.

OMG expert play troll.

ITT NeBlis remembers that goofballer is not worth even trying to talk to. I knew better from the start. The rest of you I will get back to later. I need to get some sleep, I have to go shoot guns all day tomorrow.