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The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party

12-12-2016 , 10:13 AM
Rich people don't drink Flint city water...
12-12-2016 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
Einbert --- honestly. You do realize the rich breathe the same air and drink the same water as us, right?

Do you really think the Republicans want to poison the water?
Prisoners dilemma. If company x don't poison it company y will and undercut x driving them out of business. Similarly if honest republican senator x doesnt take the bribe senator y will.
12-12-2016 , 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
Rich people don't drink Flint city water...
Flint water wasn't poisoned by a company for God's sake.

Flint's water issues is due to the fact that the city is poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the streets and the people that live there are poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the house.
12-12-2016 , 10:27 AM
Ya, no. None of the people facing criminal charges for the Flint water crisis are poors.
12-12-2016 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
Flint water wasn't poisoned by a company for God's sake.

Flint's water issues is due to the fact that the city is poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the streets and the people that live there are poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the house.
OK but you claim that rich people and poor people drink the same water. My view is that rich people and poor people drink different water, as seen in the recent Flint water scandal. Do you agree?
12-12-2016 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
Einbert --- honestly. You do realize the rich breathe the same air and drink the same water as us, right?

Do you really think the Republicans want to poison the water?
How crap, do you need a list of companies deliberately poisoning water? Do you know how rivers caught fire before the Clean Water Act? Check out a Lake Erie before and after? Think any people in NYC were swimming in the river in the 70s?
12-12-2016 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
What interests are these?
Their own self-interest. Their pay, prices, quality of life.

The Democrats tend to go on about a range of liberal issues: gay rights, gun control, race issues etc. These are all important issues but for the typical white working class voter gay marriage is not a high priority.
12-12-2016 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Dems have dragged their feet on gay rights, but this isn't the fight we need to be having right now. Like, it sucks Obama wasn't more aggressive on this in 2008, but Ohio just ****ing outlawed abortions. Stopping the Trump/Pence agenda should be job #1 for anyone on the left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
Yeah, we found out in 2004 and again in 2016 that the public doesn't give **** number one about the rights of other human beings. Drop the up-front social justice and campaign on jobs. Do all the good stuff when you're in office, but shut up about it until you are. It's clearly a loser in this country the last decade or so.
NONONONONONNONONONONNONONONONNONONONONO

my point was Obama did a lot for gay rights under his leadership democrats DIDNT drag their feet. A lot of great things happened between 2008-2016.

not whether or not it's a good tactic.
12-12-2016 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBV
Their own self-interest. Their pay, prices, quality of life.

The Democrats tend to go on about a range of liberal issues: gay rights, gun control, race issues etc. These are all important issues but for the typical white working class voter gay marriage is not a high priority.
Republican politicians certainly spend a significant amount of pitching the destruction of it, and abortion, to voters you feel don't care about it, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio can't complete a sentence without bringing these up.
12-13-2016 , 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
How crap, do you need a list of companies deliberately poisoning water? Do you know how rivers caught fire before the Clean Water Act? Check out a Lake Erie before and after? Think any people in NYC were swimming in the river in the 70s?
Are people swimming in NYC rivers now? I'd have to be way north of Albany before I'd dip my toes in the Hudson.
12-13-2016 , 12:40 AM
The solution is to liberate all the cows and pigs like in india and parts of mexico, have an ethical depopulation plan and regrow all the forest and watch the rivers clean themselves. duh
12-13-2016 , 12:42 AM
it would be reallyfun to watch the missouri river before it was covered by giant corporate genberators and waste and millions of people and just surrounded by bears and parrots and trees and deers
12-13-2016 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Are people swimming in NYC rivers now? I'd have to be way north of Albany before I'd dip my toes in the Hudson.
12-13-2016 , 12:44 AM
I'm pretty sure parrots aren't indigenous to the Missouri river.
12-13-2016 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I'm pretty sure parrots aren't indigenous to the Missouri river.


no you are incorrect according to my class about the missouri kansas war and yes there was one.
12-13-2016 , 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBV
Their own self-interest. Their pay, prices, quality of life.

The Democrats tend to go on about a range of liberal issues: gay rights, gun control, race issues etc. These are all important issues but for the typical white working class voter gay marriage is not a high priority.
Fair enough, I'd agree.

The bigger issue I posted about in the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ive
This is important, what awval typed below, in understanding the crux of this divide. I've mentioned my Derp Triad of selfish-or-stupid-or-deplorable but that's just hypothesizing the catalyst (with a bit of snarky comic relief perhaps). The reaction is awval's response. There are 10s of MMs of people who apparently can't conceive (if we're assuming a sizable % of humans have NOT micro-evolved into trolls) of voting outside their interests for anything approaching even a quasi-idealized so-called Greater Good. It's not just that they don't, or won't, it's that the mere concept doesn't look like anything to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999 View Post
Why is it amazing?

It's the honest truth. I'm married. I'm an adult. If we need to have an abortion I have the money to fly wherever in the country where it is legal.

It's simply not a voting issue for me.

I am aware that abortion is a voting issue for many people (for some, the sole issue). But it's not a voting issue for me.

There are numerous policies that people may have an opinion on but it's just not a voting issue for them.

I'm sure that the tax rates on capital gains aren't a voting issue for you. Just like their not for me. Because all of my life savings are in tax-deferred retirement accounts. I simply don't care about capital gains.
12-13-2016 , 01:20 AM
Basically, the notion of a white steelworker saying, "Damn, how many Matthew Shepards does a guy have to torture and kill before he gets a raise around here?!" doesn't exactly make me want to throw down a hard, "touche."
12-13-2016 , 08:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2OutsNoProb
Republican politicians certainly spend a significant amount of pitching the destruction of it, and abortion, to voters you feel don't care about it, Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio can't complete a sentence without bringing these up.
Yeah and neither did very well in the race.

Republicans have not fared very well in recent history appealling on their core issues. Trump only "won" because he managed to persuade a sizeable number of stupid working class people that their problems were caused by foreigners and not wall st.
12-13-2016 , 08:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by awval999
Flint water wasn't poisoned by a company for God's sake.

Flint's water issues is due to the fact that the city is poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the streets and the people that live there are poor and cannot replace the old lead pipes in the house.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0f9723cfff87e

Quote:
The regulation, the “waters of the U.S.” Clean Water Rule, was introduced by the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers in 2015 with the goal of specifically protecting streams and wetlands under the purview of the Clean Water Act.

In one of the few specific water policy positions he offered on the campaign trail, Trump repeatedly blasted the rule as “extreme” and “unconstitutional.” He vowed to “eliminate” it, a promise he has reiterated on his campaign transition website.
12-13-2016 , 08:47 AM
By the way, in his own way, awval is a great example of the Tragic Death here.

Democrats have consistently not only failed to articulate their own policies and why they would be good, they've done MUCH MUCH WORSE at drawing a contrast with the GOP's. People don't want slashed environmental regulations, that's why Trump slappies are inexplicably lying about the GOP's position on environmental issues. People don't want lower taxes on the wealthy, or block grants for Medicaid, or the VA to be privatized.

Now all that **** is going to happen, and the ****ing Democrats are so ****ing inept they won't even be able to say "I told you so".
12-13-2016 , 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Are people swimming in NYC rivers now? I'd have to be way north of Albany before I'd dip my toes in the Hudson.
Hudson is relatively clean now compared to what it was 20-30 years ago. I don't know about swimming but fishing has improved.
12-13-2016 , 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
By the way, in his own way, awval is a great example of the Tragic Death here.

Democrats have consistently not only failed to articulate their own policies and why they would be good, they've done MUCH MUCH WORSE at drawing a contrast with the GOP's. People don't want slashed environmental regulations, that's why Trump slappies are inexplicably lying about the GOP's position on environmental issues. People don't want lower taxes on the wealthy, or block grants for Medicaid, or the VA to be privatized.

Now all that **** is going to happen, and the ****ing Democrats are so ****ing inept they won't even be able to say "I told you so".
Did you see his stump speeches and what he ran on? He ran on lower taxes, reducing regulations at the EPA and other agencies and fixing the wait times at VA.
12-13-2016 , 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raradevils
Hudson is relatively clean now compared to what it was 20-30 years ago. I don't know about swimming but fishing has improved.
I'd have to be way north of Albany before I'd eat a fish caught in the Hudson.
12-13-2016 , 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I'd have to be way north of Albany before I'd eat a fish caught in the Hudson.
You only can eat so many freshwater fish a month in many of the streams in the NY State, it's not just the Hudson (mercury contamination).
12-13-2016 , 09:28 AM
Garrison Keillor says Keith Ellison, 'lackluster black Muslim,' is wrong for DNC chair




The Tragic Death of the Democratic Party: A Screenplay

Old Democrat: We lose because we spend too much time with identity politics! We need to get back to grassroots working-class politics!

Young Democrat: O hey, I found this Rust Belt guy with working-class/union cred and he seems really good at Midwestern retail politics.

Old Democrat: An Islams? There you go again with your IDENTITY POLITICS!!!

(fin)

      
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