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The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns. The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: No smocking guns.

07-13-2018 , 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Even something like searching your house without a warrant and finding letters from Trump conspiring to rob banks with you?
Like he said, impeachment is a political process. Legal protections from criminal prosecution are irrelevant.
07-13-2018 , 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Even something like searching your house without a warrant and finding letters from Trump conspiring to rob banks with you?
The breaking and entering is illegal. The letters are whatever Congress says they are.
07-13-2018 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Even something like searching your house without a warrant and finding letters from Trump conspiring to rob banks with you?

No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule

And even in a criminal case this would be admissible against Trump because he wouldn't have standing to contest the search as he has no reasonable expectation of privacy in belongings contained in somebody else's house.
07-13-2018 , 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Squashing evidence illegally obtained (or its "fruits") is considered more important (by most people) than convicting an obviously guilty murderer who would go free without that evidence.

So what if that illegal evidence is necessary to remove a president from office who would clearly be convicted with it but most likely not without it? Does the same principle apply?
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
Even something like searching your house without a warrant and finding letters from Trump conspiring to rob banks with you?
its for criminal proceedings and:

are we talking about law enforcement doing the illegal searches, or random hackers outting a bunch of information. because "illegally obtained evidence" is generally referring to violating your constitutional rights against illegal search by the government.

if i break into your house and then find a crap ton of criminally relevant information and give it to the police, that isn't a violation of your 4th amendment rights and that evidence isn't going to be excluded.
07-13-2018 , 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman220
No. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusionary_rule

And even in a criminal case this would be admissible against Trump because he wouldn't have standing to contest the search as he has no reasonable expectation of privacy in belongings contained in somebody else's house.
also this. i didnt notice the distinction that we were charging a third party based on the search.
07-13-2018 , 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Circumventing the profanity filter itt.
Despite the fact that I'm deeply offended and consider it a direct attack on my morals and character, I guess we have to allow it because libs say "****hole" on TV now
07-13-2018 , 10:16 PM
Disappointed we apparently didn't do anything more significant and doubly so that I didn't know he was coming but the following made me smile. Anyone know how long he's in Scotland for? would gladly drive up to Aberdeen or wherever just to berate him from a distance

Quote:
Among the placards carried by campaigners in George Square were messages against the US president's policies including "Give the weans Irn Bru not iron cages" while others urged him to go home, with signs saying "Bolt ya rocket and make Scotland great again".

Last edited by abysmal01; 07-13-2018 at 10:22 PM.
07-13-2018 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celentano
Yes,
The president is the LAW according to the US Constitution. He can pardon anybody he likes including himself. You can't do that but he can do it. So, he is the LAW of this land.
On the surface this seems like pretty dubious, simple-minded nonsense that wouldn't stand up to even a bit of scrutiny, but you typed LAW in ALL CAPS, so now I'm convinced.
07-13-2018 , 10:30 PM
What are the chances shrewd Putin throws the 12 people indicted today under the bus and offers them up to Trump at this one on one meeting? It would be a bigboy win for Don.
07-13-2018 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...38729170964481
1
07-13-2018 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirOsis
What are the chances shrewd Putin throws the 12 people indicted today under the bus and offers them up to Trump at this one on one meeting? It would be a bigboy win for Don.
0% chance. Trump will repeat that he looked into Putin's eyes and was helpless when Putin said he didn't do it, the investigation is a witch hunt, and we should be better with Russia. Also Crimea has always been Russian.
07-13-2018 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hired Goons2
wow, not as much of a taboo on the c-word in the UK as in the states. taking a beer out of the fridge to let it warm up to room tempature to salute you bastards.
As a Canadian who's travelled the world in search of the best beers. Portland has the most interesting and best flavours, but England has cask ales which are a completely unexplored style of( beer in the rest of the world)they have been perfecting for centuries which makes you satisfied and doesn't make you fart/burp. Why isn't cask ale a thing everywhere? In Toronto they convert decent beers into cask beers which don't work out, you need to make the beer specifically for Cask. CAMRA for life!

Last edited by bigt2k4; 07-13-2018 at 11:00 PM.
07-13-2018 , 10:59 PM
Interesting.

Portland is where I had my first great amber and first real revelation of how good craft beer could be. I've only found one other great amber - in Arvada, Colorado. I'm pretty sure it's all about the water in both places.
07-13-2018 , 11:11 PM
New York Times still calling Trump's lies falsehoods
07-13-2018 , 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99
Interesting.

Portland is where I had my first great amber and first real revelation of how good craft beer could be. I've only found one other great amber - in Arvada, Colorado. I'm pretty sure it's all about the water in both places.
I had a lot of great beers throughout Oregon, but Base Camp in Portland was standard deviations above what one should expect of a craft beer place.
07-13-2018 , 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
New York Times still calling Trump's lies falsehoods
Falsehood is a more accurate term the majority of the time. Most of the dumb **** he says he has no idea whether it's true.
07-13-2018 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
Falsehood is a more accurate term the majority of the time. Most of the dumb **** he says he has no idea whether it's true.
no
07-14-2018 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirOsis
What are the chances shrewd Putin throws the 12 people indicted today under the bus and offers them up to Trump at this one on one meeting? It would be a bigboy win for Don.
And risk one of them talking? Probably 0 chance. Plus it'd probably piss a lot of Russians and upper Russian military.
07-14-2018 , 12:07 AM
A+



https://twitter.com/nycjayjay/status...80108601221120
07-14-2018 , 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUberBob
New York Times still calling Trump's lies falsehoods
Guardian's headline is "Trump ... tells towering, easily debunked lies"
07-14-2018 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slighted
also this. i didnt notice the distinction that we were charging a third party based on the search.
So my example didn't fully capture my point. I guess a better one would be Trump was illegally wiretapped by the FBI and was overheard saying something that would get him impeached and convicted.
07-14-2018 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sklansky
So my example didn't fully capture my point. I guess a better one would be Trump was illegally wiretapped by the FBI and was overheard saying something that would get him impeached and convicted.
The answer is still the same: the wiretap is illegal. The evidence is whatever Congress says it is.

I recommend reviewing the constitution. It contains all the rules of evidence for impeachment proceedings.
07-14-2018 , 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNewT50
I said long ago that Trump's laziness and detachment might be his salvation. I would wager very confidently that there's no paper trail tying Trump to any of this directly. The best we can hope for are his kids and close associates going behind bars--perhaps THAT would have some impact on the electorate.

The battle here is the narrative; it's not the legal one. So far, it ain't going well.
I agree that Trump being found guilty of criminal collusion or election interference are super high odds. But Mueller has so much more than what's publicly available. Trump's been a serial conman, criminal money launderer, and no doubt, tax evader for years with deep ties to Russia.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think it's a matter of exactly what charges are brought and where. He'll snap pardon himself for federal crimes. But it's my understanding he can't pardon himself for state crimes.

The current narrative is that a sitting president cannot be indicted. That remains to be tested in courts. But this **** show goes so deep with so many likely crimes that it will become impossible even for him to function as president. Even though his base will never leave him, there comes a point where projecting onto others, dissing our democratic institutions, and shouting fake news won't cut it anymore.

In the end, I think you're right though. It's going to become a political process that will require continued ratcheting pressure on congress until they have no choice but to call for impeachment. I fear he will not leave peacefully or not without inciting his base to riot in his defense. And even if he does, Pence will immediately pardon him. But it's my hope that he, Don Jr., and Kushner will still be indicted on state criminal charges even if he fulfills his term.

This is such an unprecedented mess, there's just no way to predict how this ends.
07-14-2018 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScreaminAsian
https://twitter.com/abc/status/1017818979161735169
This needs to take place in every major American city (baby Trump balloon included) at least once a month with just as big of a turnout.

Let's make it happen!
07-14-2018 , 01:01 AM

      
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