International isolation was a big part of why Afrikaaners gave up apartheid. But it's a long process to get a group to reach that frame of mind. And there's not much of an alternative.

I think that public opinion can be won around quite quickly. It's important to emphasise that what Israel is doing in the OPT is apartheid as people understand what that is and agree that apartheid is unacceptable.

Aren't the government policies you're protesting wildly popular in Israel tho?

So?

Also, I've come to learn that people will support all sorts of stupid **** on a poll or an election but when it actually comes down to it or when they see the effects for themselves then they quickly change their minds. The only way to stay sane and for it to make sense is to automatically assume that despite how they may act or what they say, most people are mostly good at their core regardless of where they live or what they call themselves.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

I hardly think that's applicable here, otherwise you have a very wide definition of 'evil'.

Driving people off their land and killing them if they resist whilst operating a system of apartheid against them and occasionally attacking them and killing them by the hundred or thousand to break their resistance is evil within my definition of the word "evil". Don't you agree ?

@ADT

I am not interested in your rant I will just point out that everything I wrote is currently happening and imo it is evil within any reasonable definition of the word "evil".

The Palestinians in the OPT are not proper refugees as they've always lived there. They have just been colonised and decitizenised and the colonisers have instituted a system of apartheid against them like the South African whites did in apartheid South Africa.

"instituted a system of apartheid against them like the South African whites did in apartheid South Africa."

Israeli Apartheid Week was held in 215 cities this year.

NB that's a protest AGAINST it.

How do you know you only registered yesterday. Is that you Confluence84 ?

A recent episode of This American Life talked with Israeli soldiers about one of the frustrations of serving in the occupied territories. They have to go into Palestinian homes at all hours and photograph and identify all the residents. Then the data they collect over months is destroyed.

Well now that BH has established itt that any source of information is acceptable, here is some recent news.

16 Palestinians, 3 with terror links, charged in US smuggling ring

Largest category of prisoners in Hamas prisons: Women who had sex outside of marriage

Ma'an News (Palestine): Syrian group claims rocket attack on Israel

Palestinian Newspaper: Jews drink blood of Christian babies

Palestinian author: Passover rituals historically require blood of Arab babies

Wolfson medical centre surgeons save Syrian girl's life

Ashton Kutcher invests in Israeli high tech

BDS is not grassroots - BDS organizations are funded by Arab governments

Oh, and just to show how hypocritical Stephen Hawking is, the conference he boycotted has hosted Palestinian speakers in every year it has happened.

And more:

Ken Livingstone, who represents British constituences, is a big fan of self-declared Jew-hater Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi

Evidence mounts that Muhammad al Dura was never actually killed

Large-bodied Arab man breaks chair over elderly Jew's head in Jerusalem

Egyptian man dressed as woman gets sexually harassed

Crackpot George Galloway: Israel supports Al Qaeda

Business Insider names 20 "hot" Israeli startups

Sodastream, frequent target of BDS activists, raises guidance on 2013 profit by 25%

Susan Rice: obsessive, unbalanced criticism of Israel at UN harms chances at peace

Israel adds another $400M to trade with China

It seems the picture of a marginalized, apartheid Israel that is being painted here doesn't exist at all. And as long as posters here continue to pretend that it does, I will post proof that it doesn't.

And the most illuminating article:

From Israeli news aggregator Walla!, an article by Lital Shemesh, a young, liberal Israeli journalist, considered a rising star in the Israeli media who openly expresses her political aspirations.

And translated into English on an Israeli blog.

This is not the first time a group of Israelis who pine for peace have met with their liberal Arab counterparts - only to find that they have no counterparts at all.

Question for anyone: Does anyone think the two-State solution will work? If not, how will Isreal cope with the demographical shift that is currently happening? If one person, one vote is a underlying prinicipal of democracy won't Isreal cease to be as it as currently constructed.?

There simply won't be peace until there is a dramatic cultural shift in Arab attitudes towards Israel. Two-state solution, one-state solution, nothing will change. Israel isn't going anywhere, the Arabs aren't going anywhere. So we'll just sit and wait. The waiting game has proven better for us than them, and I feel terrible for the honest people that just want to make a living and be comfortable, who are subject to despotic propagandized rule by their leaders and security operations by ours.

EDIT all of which is to say, that eventually there will be two states, with minority populations of each nation (jews and arabs) in the "others'" state, as free citizens. hopefully. but stuffing solutions down the throats of each side is a waste of time and won't end violence - in fact I bet it will increase it.

Are you actually Israeli?

Interesting.

There are a few that occasionally post here.

I've split my life between Israel and Canada (which is probably why I still have the stomach to talk about it)
Hadis is a lefty peacenik dreamer (kidding he's a smart guy)
Goater is an immigrant to Israel from a long time ago but still occassionally posts

Ah fair enough, I just assumed you were American because most of the staunch defenders usually are either conservative or christian americans (no offence of course). Yeah, I get what you mean, it's not easy dealing with stuff from the homeland if you have a troubled one, it's not the same but I can hardly deal with discussing Syria now because it's so grim, I'm just lucky I don't live there anymore.

Anyway, thank you for the info, also, in regards to your link about liberal Israelis not finding their counterparts, two problems with this 1) It's much easier for an Israeli to be a liberal than for a Palestinian, while Israel has a security threat, most of the Palestinian territories area is a wasteland and life is much more difficult for them than for the Israeli people. 2) There are liberal Palestinians and other Muslims/Middle Easterners (I don't like the word Arab), but, as you said, in most Middle Eastern cultures there is a lot of hate against Jews and Israelis in particular, Israel on the other hand is somewhat western in it's outlook, so, by definition, it's more likely to find a liberal Israeli than a liberal Palestinian. Obviously though there is plenty of stupidity and hate on all sides.

Asymmetry, how does it work?

Israel has opted for the apartheid solution with the Palestinians in the OPT never getting freedom or citizenship and a vote.

You're thinking of Fundamental Attribution Error.

I'm not saying that Arabs just hate because they hate, that is obviously ******ed.

But it sounds like you're saying that if I tell myself that everything you have should belong to me, I get to stop thinking logically. I have no obligation to work toward an agreement. I don't have to recognize your rights too.

wouldn't wish that on anyone.

you're half right. it is much more difficult for them, this is true. is it really a wasteland? Take a drive one day near abu dis, or in the hills north and east of jerusalem. There are Palestinian mansions bigger than Buckingham palace. And if you want to know why Palestinians suffer, those houses are all owned by people in government (or close connections).

true. you should hear some (SOME) of the black hats talk. But those people are hated and condemned by significant majorities of Israel, including (and most importantly) mainstream media. Mainstream media among middle easterners (if that's the term you prefer i am happy to use it, though we are middle easterners too) is a source of much of the hate. That's a fundamental difference.

No, that i'm saying is since the situation is not symmetrical,it is illogical to assume that both parties would feel symmetrical about the situation.