Okay sure, so we agree we should NOT treat Palestinians as children and surely making child metaphors about palestinian behaviour would be really bad.

Wait what? In the very next paragraph you use a child metaphor? Seriously?

Of course.

I just think a republic solves problems by allowing two states with some universal laws, trade, etc. Ideally there could be one state where everyone lives in loving harmony with everyone else but obv that is even less realistic than my suggestion which is unrealistic enough as it is.

So your list of benefits is: jeruselem, right of return, trade, universal laws? You already agreed the first two don't mean we need a one state solution. Next up, trade....this is neither helped or hurt by it. You can, if you wish, make a complete free trade agreements with super easy border procedures....or you can make them tougher for security or whatever else. But any trade/border agreemetns like this are quite possible without having a republic. As for universal laws, rightly or wrongly, Israeli and Palestinian society is sharply different and the current legal system is very different. Now you are just making the problem - getting a peace deal - vastly more difficult by ALSO imposing that this deal means they have a universal legal system between the two.

Oh I know. In fact, your idea is great and what I kind of wish would happen. But in the real world, its the idea that will also lead to the most bloodshed and/or end of any semblance of peace. Lebanon, the Balkans, Sudan, Iraq, Syria, and Czechoslovakia all tell me that's a bad idea.

True.

False.

I know your pov, and you're entirely reasonable. But to suggest that the only viable long-term solution is to just open it all up is ludicrous. I mean really ridiculous simply because its so impossible and will not lead to any long term peace - all it will do is transform the conflict from an international conflict to a intranational conflict.

I may disagree, but there is a requirement to be reasonable, argue using actual fact and not repeat random claims, and not simply say what you hope is true vs. what is actually true.

Besides, I realized my post could be misinterpreted and wanted to say that while i didnt have any problem with the scenario you outlined (beyond its impossibility), the claim that the "only" solution was your proposed solution was terrible imo.

I have a lot of frustration over people who seem to have pie-in-the-sky solutions and especially for people with simple-minded views without any knowledge of fact (i know you do), so it came out bad.

sorry for the frustration.

come on, really? you don't see the argument there?

i'll spell it out slow: the leaders know nobody puts any pressure on them whatsoever to do anything. so they play it up and strategize to take advantage for personal gain: terror, violence, stunts.

at best, world hates on Israel, pressures israel to lay off, more aid money to embezzle, no elections, no ideological compromise. at worst, nobody pays attention, life continues as usual. when someone finally notices that they haven't budged an inch, or thinks that maybe some pressure is needed on the Palsetinians, they just make more threats.

Always threats:

and more threats.

that's what thinking human beings do.

its not hard.

lol.

over and over and over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Which is why I used the word some before saying universal laws.

I'm not saying a republic would be perfect by any means. The guy simply asked for people's opinions of how Israel could maximize its interests in the long run. It is my opinion (and nothing more) that Israel is best served by having a one state solution that is a republic in order to allow for some equality so that the fact that there would be more Palestinians than Israelis wouldn't render them powerless.

The reason for this? Israel is in a losing position in the long run. With the rapid growth of the Palestinian and Arab populations, combined with the fact that they will never accept an Israel with Jerusalem as its capital and no right to return to Israel (Arafat turned down a legitimate peace accord simply bc of right to return, sighhhh), it is hard to see a way for Israel to maintain its strength in a hundred years. I wish this wasn't the case as I strongly believe Israel has a right to exist, but it's what I believe to be true after years of studying the area and spending time living in the West Bank, etc.

If I were the Palestinians and I didn't really care about what's right (in some objective sense), and I just wanted to "win," all I'd do is wait and know time was on my side.

to peacefully dismantle the state.

If they were to consider such concessions, with what could they be compensated?

you guys go first.

Its not a concession if you never had it, and if you want to give them something feel free.

or

I want you to stop posting. If, in the name of peace, I agree to let you keep posting, how will you compensate me?

my state wasn't born like yours.

Where do you live?

thanks for the links, tho i stopped reading after here.... basically Nicky is full of ****.

also anything to corroborate "20 Arab teenagers filled with ecstasy tablets and sent running towards the base he'd patrolled. Each strapped with a bomb and carrying a hand-held detonator.

The pills in their bloodstream meant they felt no pain. Only a headshot would take them down."

there must be some evidence of this, unless it is made up.

if you stopped reading after there, you missed all of the evidence.

wait is this ecstasy we are talking about? lmfao

where do people get these ludicrous ideas of how drugs affect you?

poor reading comprehension, is my guess

these terrorists give their "soldiers" (suicide terrorists and gunmen, etc) ecstasy - among other drugs like heroin and methamphetimines - to dull any sense of fear/self-preservation before they click the button.

which is like the textbook effect of ecstasy.

nobody said that ecstasy drives people to kill themselves. what the ****.

Its pretty obvious you have never done drugs in your life thus have no idea what you are talking about. These drugs have no such effects (they just make you feel good), replace the above with alcohol and the statement is just as ridiculous.

how silly of me! why would someone who has been told to go kill themselves need to "feel good" before they actually went through with it? surely, feeling good has nothing to do with self-confidence or lack of fear or anxiety.

its pretty obvious you have done entirely too much drugs in your life.

Lets say if I was 'forced' to do a kamikaze mission in WW2 and was asked if I wanted some feel good drugs. Of course I would but I would be under no illusion that it would remove fear or self preservation. A bit like taking a few whiskies to calm the nerves.

This is offensive and uncalled for.

i don't even know what to say to this - what exactly do you define as "calms the nerves"? perhaps, "dulls any sense of fear"? at any rate, does it make a that much of a difference - any sense or most of the sense? you accused me 1) of having never taken drugs and 2) of having no idea what the effects are, and did so pretty aggressively. i can tell you firsthand that fear and self-preservation were a long way from the front of my mind.


which is why i deleted it

Strange choice of words, rather than accused I said it was obvious when you think that the below quotes are anything other than laughable or huge exaggerations of the effects of these drugs.

The pills in their bloodstream meant they felt no pain. Only a headshot would take them down."

to dull any sense of fear/self-preservation before they click the button.

Congrats on having a clean lifestyle, wouldn't accuse you of anything else.

I just want to add that I am not arguing this point because I want to advocate use of drugs or downplay negative effects of drugs. I just take offense in the general language in Gamblors post and the links he provided which primary purpose is to demonize the enemy.

What demonize?

The last 3 were from Pakistani, Somalian, and I-forget newspapers direct from jihadis themselves. My point wasn't that drugs are bad - its that pumping them full of the good stuff is the only way the handlers can get these poor kids to kill themselves - and others.

Which is all a smaller point to the main point in my post: that, just like everywhere else on earth, politicians manipulate people into keeping the system going against the people's interests. In the US, its crony and corporatist capitalism. In "Palestine", its terror and the Zionist entity. Its all the same. 'Cept in the US and Israel, we get regular elections to vote out the guys we don't like. Not true for virtually all Arab states, and especially the Palestinians.

19 year old blogs about life in Gaza

this is the first bit, next bit still to come will be focused on the Israeli side