I'm not saying people who are criticised will become white supremacists. They just might stop posting, and end up with less exposure to the arguments here. (And people can sometimes change their minds here. I'm thinking of seattlelou, who started out as a standard business Republican and then slowly adopted relatively more liberal views while posting here).

The weirdest part of all these dip****s concern trolling about how it's important to be nicer to racists is that they are talking about themselves. Like, you can't even ****ing defend your own honest views, you're more comfortable just advocating that you be allowed to share them without disagreement?

It's sad. Being right about assorted political views is an achievable goal! Just change your mind! That seems easier than you patiently and tirelessly trolling us into changing your mind for you. Kind of an unnecessary middleman. And since you're asking that I do something for you that you could easily do for yourself, I think it's only fair that you pay me. Nich, that might make it clear about who you are and what you represent. I will treat you with respect for $5 a post. You don't earn that respect with your thoughts like other people, so you have to buy it, with money.


Oh, definitely. Just a couple of real quick followups, which one point of view is predominant and what do we disagree with those people about?

This is one of the wilder pet issues out of nowhere we've had lately, but I think it's worth noting that you just invented "a)" in this anecdote.

It's also worth noting that your boy Harris got ****ing wrecked by a centrist tax wonk about Harris' chosen subject of debate recently lol

LOL, the libertarian throwback players trying to bring back Unchained.

But what's the downside?

Also, we know from experience this isn't true. Like, you're still in here leading a Pickett's charge against the Civil Rights movement despite getting relentlessly dunked on by fly.

Chris,

Taking you completely out of context I don't agree this is the case

I think if a guy came online posting that all heathens should be killed or women should be forced to wear burkas or whatever they'd get screamed at pretty fast and consistently. There might be a hypocrisy play in the idea that we say 'don't tar all muslims as equivalent to the extremists' then go broad brush on trump supporters but even that is debatable. I think most of the complaining is from people who were taken to task for their actual stated views rather than views ascribed to them because of who they voted for or any other broad brush metrics. #changemymind tho obv.

Chris might not remember but we did have a vociferously anti-LGBT Muslim poster in Unchained for a little bit. He was yelled at constantly for defending horrible **** and the only people he ever got along with were anti-LGBT reactionaries!

thekid345
banned

The point of strawmen arguments is to make your opponent look worse, not to believe them yourself!

thekid at least pretended to be Christian iirc, Catholic specifically. He was into The Knights Templar. Pretty sebastiangorkish.

and then there is this...'...black men may be better off at home...'

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article208846864.html

people will write the dumbest stuff, and then it gets by the editorial staff!

Well this gets problematic, I think he was like, a little touched. He had a pro-Sharia and a tradcath phase, he was really into justifications for stoning degenerates.

and then there is this...'...black men may be better off at home...' with the quote ending with "after a certain hour"

We're ALL better off at home after a certain hour.

The three rules of Cook County Trauma:

1) All bleeding stops eventually
2) If you walked in you can walk out
3) Nothing good happens after 2am

MM MD

The whole thing about “you just want us to be nice to racists!” is that by your own definitions, you’d almost certainly classify a majority (quite possibly a large majority) of American voters as racist. Probably all of Trump’s voters would be automatically categorised racist, probably most of Johnson’s voters, and the roughly 1/3 of Clinton voters who don’t approve of Black Lives Matter is a reasonable proxy for the kind of Democratic-leaner who’d get called racist here. That’s at least 60% of all voters.

Or take when Jonathan Ferrell was shot, Fly was calling people racist (and others like MrWookie were agreeing him with slightly more civility) for putting forth the view that you couldn’t be sure that the woman who called the cops on him was racist. That view was later espoused by Ta-Nehisi Coates (who if you’re not aware, has written articles like “A Case For Reparations”, and is surely well to the left of the median American on racial issues). I’m not aware of any of polls on that issue, but I’d guess it’d be at least 80% against Fly’s side.

Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re wrong. Maybe it’s a defensible position that a wide majority of Americans are racist, or that Coates was wrong on that particular issue.

But it matters a whole lot from a strategy perspective. If your opponents are genuinely fringe Nazis, then maybe yelling at them about how terrible they are could be a modestly effective way of getting them to realise that their views will see them shunned, even if they don’t actually change them. However, if you’re the equivalent of a vegan going around calling meat-eaters murderers, then it’s much more likely you’ll get the equivalent of people shrugging, heading off to their neighbourhood BBQs and exchanging quips about how crazy vegans are.

https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/201...vegan-protest/

And?

C'mon dude. Don't be obtuse. The rest of his post is the "and".

He's so close to actually articulating his views for the first time, and I want to focus in here.

Is the conclusion correct? Are the premises wrong? Is Ameica full of deplorables? What does Nich actually think and why?

PS, Nich what if I told you that being an advocate for the superiority of the white race is extremely rude, even if you don't use swears? You seem to want a discussion where one side isn't allowed to be mean but the other is allowed to discuss the merits of eugenics. It's an obvious double standard.

Not peaceful.

How is it not peaceful?

Cutting up a leg is not peaceful.

Why not? Does it imply a threat?

It implies a threat to deer.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I seems that members of #TeamN never learn.

This is a claim about the real world. The claim is that, say Coates perceived strategy, is demonstrably "a whole lot" less effective than some unspecified other strategy.

I'm calling BS, and under the rules of Alta, I'd like a cite.

Please cite some research that examines something like what you perceive as Coates strategy and shows that it is "a whole lot" less effective than a specific other strategy, or alternately, the "null strategy" of doing nothing.

Why do you give a **** about the strategies of liberals re: race relations when your main concern has been against calling things racist, not actually fighting racism?

Two words come to mind. The first is "concern".

As always, this whole line of so-called reasoning always depends on this unexamined real world claim of effectiveness. The Q I've asked members of #TeamN for nine years, which has never yet been addressed, is this...

Hypothetically, if this claim of real world effectiveness was empirically found out to be mistaken, do you have any other objections ??

Yeah we’ve done this whole song and dance a million times now where we try to parse out which is worse: being racist or being called racist? It’s not even interesting anymore! If you’re first reaction when someone informs you that you’re being racist is being offended and deciding that you’re actually fine, the truth is you’re probably racist.

This actually happened to me in that I used to make purposely “racist” jokes because I thought they were funny and that everyone was in on the joke. When I found out that a few people were offended and did not find them funny did I say, ”Well 95% of your classmates think they’re funny so you’re just being too sensitive”? No i said I was sorry because they were never meant to be offensive and I stopped doing it. What did my racist ass mom do when one of her friends told her she was racist? She stopped being friends with that person! Which one of us actually cares about racism, hmmm?