We were talking about the culture that promotes rape through various means. From victim blaming, to objectifying women, and so on and so forth. Are these problems?

You forgot to call the PhDs, researchers and social change advocates over at RAINN old, misogynist, out-of-touch clowns again, or whatever your take was on who they were and what you felt about the lot of them.

You win the most hypocritical / least informed / most opinionated award ITT. Congratulations. Please, continue on calling others misogynists while you exhibit ageism unabashedly. And seriously...seriously...call those at RAINN out of touch and old again. PLEASE. And chase it all down by telling us how important it is we listen to you and your opinions over theirs.

Their suggestions to the White house, BTW, was very full of data and was an extremely well formulated argument. To answer you, I don't think they attempted to quantify an abstract phenomena such as "rape culture" with statistics, or W-T-F-ever it might be that your magical, child-like imagination might have envisioned for them to provide you with in their piece to the WH. But you know what, child? It really doesn't matter if they did.

Before you cry double standard, this why I continually call you et al. out on your bu****it authoritative proclamations.

RAINN is comprised of the leading experts in the field of interest ITT and don't need to substantiate each assertion they make in their field of interest/study. This is especially true when they claim X (rape culture) isn't to blame, but Y (small sub-sample of serial rapists) is, and then provide evidence for Y.

NOTE: This is precisely what Ikes is arguing, much to your shigrin, when he continues reminding you that small sub-samples != some pervasive American cultural phenomenon. I don't necessarily agree that rape culture is non-existent, but I do agree that pointing to 15 people and saying, "SEE! RAPE CULTURE BROS." is not satisfactory.

#DUDELITERALLY is comprised of individuals who make up for zero expertise/credentials by upping the froth and volume of their assertions. They NEED to substantiate most anything they proclaim to be taken even remotely seriously.

Are you getting it? This is really, really basic stuff.

If consistent, which he mostly is, he's going to tell you that he's a sex-positive feminist and that objectification of women isn't really a problem.

Victim blaming is a problem but again not a cultural one, objectifying women (when the term is used as the general appreciation of female sexuality) does not cause rape.

Nope.

I asked you what you would do if you woke up with a girl who woke up regretting sleeping with you (which is one of your "did you rape her" criteria). You said "talk to her".

But about what? It's been pretty well established itt that if a girl regrets sleeping with you the next morning that it was probably rape, or at least some serious scumbaggery.

So what's the goal of that conversation?

and how about the 99% of the time when it's not used as a "general appreciation of female sexuality"

Culture blames women for getting raped? The overwhelming majority of normal humans see rape as a horrific crime and blame the rapist, not the victim.

Objectification absolutely contributes to rape. When you dehumanize people and turn them into sexual objects people thinking they can use women as such is a natural consequence.

So, still no data on the pervasiveness of rape culture? Because RAINN would rather pursue other issues over rape culture (because it's a challenging problem) does not invalidate the opinion of those who have a problem with rape culture.

Also, I've said over and over again that it's a minority of people that cause a majority of the problems and this minority congregates on the Internet concentrating their vitriol to the point that women have a significantly worse time on the Internet than men. But I guess people shouldnt complain about where the problems are concentrated because when we sample broader society the problems are much more diffuse.

I gotta give you credit for wording Ikes; despite usually giving not near enough content, you do carefully word your posts. I respect that.

But do you think objectifying women is a problem? I think that's what Giz asked if memory serves.

Ikes, is there such thing as hip-hop culture? As Native American culture? Our society can not be described in these terms, other than as a small minority, and therefore the term culture is meaningless correct?

Horse****. Millions of people see pictures of women (and men!) being objectified every ****ing day and don't rape people.

If rape culture was an attempt to define the habits of an extremely small minority this would be a valid response. Since it's an overarching indictment of society it's not a valid response.

Can you give an example of how this manifests itself in a situation that isn't 100% forceable rape?

I don't disagree with the premise, but I've yet to meet a person who thinks women exist for their use.

It depends on what you mean. If you mean liking how a person looks then no that's fine. If you mean thinking you can treat women like a hammer no that's bad. Problem is people start off with the former and treat it like the latter.

Here's a pretty good article on RAINNS take on rape culture

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...the_white.html

This target practice is getting old. This will likely be my last home run off one of your lobbed softballs.

Here's a DiB mini-lecture on reasoning; A gift, from me to you. Just because someone doesn't prove X (rape culture) false, doesn't mean X is then true. This is called a fallacy, but your cognitive development disallows us to go much deeper into this. We'll wait a few years.

NOTE TO IAN: You can't make things true by wishing them into reality. You seriously are taking a child-like approach to this, as if you were an 8 year old stumbling into an adult conversation.

Listen, despite wishing all of RAINN to be old, poorly informed misogynists who refuse to deal with rape culture because of it's complexities, you can't just say s*** like that and be like, "BOOM, TRUTH BOMB YO!" and expect us all to nod along. How on God's green earth do you know any of the above to be true? ANY of it. Please, please tell me.

Then tell me again how all the PhDs and leading experts over at RAINN are old out-of-touch misogynists who just need to get on board with team #DUDELITERALLY already.

Geez, I wonder why you've ignored this like 4 times in a row? Hmmm.....

You know what's super weird? This is almost verbatim what RAINN claimed when discussing how rape culture wasn't to blame for campus rapes. Like, substitute "campus" for "internet" and you've got a match. The bolded portion isn't the same though, as that's when RAINN explains how a small sub-group of students being serial rapists basically negate a rape culture argument of causation.

Good times though. As a reminder: Please call the PhDs and experts over at RAINN out-of-touch and old again, and then proceed with your attempts to be taken seriously. If you /ignore this request for the 4th or 5th time, you could at least recant and not look like a tantrumy child. Your call though.

A Michigan man is above this 3rd grade assed argument. It's obviously not that simple.

Seeing women as sexual objects is just unquestionably a contributing factor to date rape.

Yup, I'm on board with the advice that schools should be educating their students on consent. I've advocated that repeatedly ITT. Repeatedly.

Then you et al. have laughed it off as being something rapists wouldn't give two s***s about and that it wouldn't make a dent in the problem. Good times though, keep making my case and showing how in line RAINN and my position are.

It kind of got overlooked with all the other lulz in here, but ikes complaining about gizmo being snarky is just amazeballs.

Another 101 type article that define rape culture for you guys

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...lture?s=mobile

Includes lots of unheard of behaviours like the dreaded "friend zone" and street harassment, and rape jokes, things in our society only engaged in by a extremely small minority that no one takes seriously so we should all just stop talking about it anyway.

So, it plays a factor, because we know it plays a factor because we know it plays a factor.

Meanwhile, billions of people see things objectified every day and rape no one. This is the video game causes mass murders argument and it's really ****ing dumb

Only in your head are in line with RAINN as has been repeatedly shown. There is really no point in taking you seriously until you report some actual data or understand that RAINN has serious disagreements with your conclusions on university discipline.

Kind of a random anecdote, but my wife watches a dumb show called the bachelorette. There was a promo for an upcoming episode that showed all the guys doing some sort of fashion show dressed only in bikini briefs or whatever. At the end the announcer said something like "you can thank us later, ladies". Pretty obvious objectification of men.

Cliff notes: People like to look at attractive people. Also, some people are rapists.

For the dense, since it is apparently necessary, an explanation of how objectification can lead to sexual violence towards women:

Consent, Equality, and the Legal Control of Sexual Conduct, 61 S. Cal. L. Rev. 777 (1988).