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10-09-2009 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichlemn
The whole problem with "using the Nobel to influence" is that the reason it is possible is precisely because it isn't generally given for that reason. Giving Obama the Nobel because you want it to influence him to withdraw troops or whatever is only possible because of the "capital" built up by past awards. Suppose every year they gave it for this reason, what would happen? Pretty soon it would have no influence because everyone would know the award was nothing more than an advocacy tool.
This is certainly reasonable, but I'm not sure if it's historically correct that the prize has not previously been used with a view to influencing current events.
Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize
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Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize
10-09-2009 , 11:20 AM
From Andrew Sullivan:

Quote:
Reading through all the reactions, compiled by Chris and Patrick, there are two obvious points: this is premature and this is thoroughly deserved.

Both are right. I don't think Americans fully absorbed the depths to which this country's reputation had sunk under the Cheney era. That's understandable. And so they also haven't fully absorbed the turn-around in the world's view of America that Obama and the American people have accomplished. Of course, this has yet to bear real fruit. But you can begin to see how it could; and I hope more see both the peaceful intentions and the steely resolve of this man to persevere.

This president has done a huge amount to bring race relations in this country to a different place, which is why the far right has become so vicious in attacking him and lying about him. They know he threatens their politics of division and rule. He has also directly addressed the Muslim world, telling some hard truths, and played a small role in evoking a similar movement of hope and change in Iran, and finally told the Israelis to stop cutting their nose off to spite their face.
10-09-2009 , 11:22 AM
Anyone have CNN? Is he on now?
10-09-2009 , 11:25 AM
finished
10-09-2009 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynton
Where did I say it made things better?

Just seemed like thats what you thought. My bad if that isn't how you feel.
10-09-2009 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by owsley
Obama is actively seeking to advance peace? Are they talking about the time he sent more troops to Afghanistan as one of his first acts in office? Or continuing extraordinary rendition and expanding the state secrets privilege? I guess part of actively seeking to advance peace involves increasing the military budget.

What a bunch of clowns. Who cares what they have to say. Just another piece of evidence that Obama is just one big cult of personality.
But Obama never made any specific campaign promises NOT to do those things.

And therefore they were excluded from consideration by Nobel Committee.
10-09-2009 , 11:30 AM
he's doing alot more for world peace than isolationalist "libertarian" types ie ron paul
10-09-2009 , 11:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanDyer
he's doing alot more for world peace than isolationalist "libertarian" types ie ron paul
And I am doing more than X, therefore I should win it.
10-09-2009 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubasteve
Just seemed like thats what you thought. My bad if that isn't how you feel.
All I'm doing is trying to explain the motivation of the committee, not justify it. Personally, I think the award was premature.

Consider this article by Robert Naiman:

Quote:
anyone who thinks this award is unprecedented hasn't been paying attention.

The Nobel Committee gave South African Bishop Desmond Tutu the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984 for his leadership of efforts to abolish apartheid in South Africa. Apartheid wasn't fully abolished in South Africa until 1994. The committee could have waited until after apartheid was abolished to say, "Well done!" But the point of the award was to help bring down apartheid by strengthening Bishop Tutu's efforts. In particular, everyone knew that it was going to be much harder for the apartheid regime to crack down on Tutu after the Nobel Committee wrapped him in its protective cloak of world praise.

That's what the Nobel Committee is trying to do for Obama now. It's giving an award to encourage the change in world relations that Obama has promised, and to try to help shield Obama against his domestic adversaries. The committee is well aware that history is contingent and that Obama might fail. It knows very well that the same country that elected Obama also gave the world George W. Bush and Ronald Reagan.
So, he may be right that the prize has been used on other occasions to effect change, rather than to reward for change accomplished. But while I cannot recall what was happening in 1984, the analogy to Desmond Tutu seems pretty silly. I'm pretty sure that, by 1984, Tutu had already spent years fighting apartheid, at great personal risk.
10-09-2009 , 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guids
Really?


you think there are still huge obama fans left?
tons of them.
10-09-2009 , 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsaltron
1) He was NOMINATED for the award in FEBRUARY. Let me ask you, what had he done his first month of office to deserve nomination of the world's most prolific peace prize?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsaltron
also the NBP has been stigmatized since HENRY KISSINGER won it in 1973, but this is LOL bad too
you win the thread
10-09-2009 , 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vhawk01
But Obama never made any specific campaign promises NOT to do those things.
O RLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr9ywEFRQkQ
10-09-2009 , 11:33 AM
it's a joke. The award has now lost all credibility

the fact that the nominations were due before he took office makes it that much more of a joke
10-09-2009 , 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanDyer
he's doing alot more for world peace than isolationalist "libertarian" types ie ron paul
By increasing military spending, and increasing troop levels in Afghanistan?
10-09-2009 , 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanDyer
he's doing alot more for world peace than isolationalist "libertarian" types ie ron paul
Ron Paul, the man who wants to pull out of our major conflicts and basically end the US rule of the world?

Where did you come up with your views on Ron Paul? You appear to have no idea what he or libertarianism is about if you think he is doing less to promote peace than the leader of the world empire...lol.
10-09-2009 , 11:36 AM
That they felt they had to rush to give him the award this year suggests that they are concerned that it would not fly next year or future years once the reality of who the real Obama is sinks in.
10-09-2009 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdaddydvo
The first thought of emanating from the former right wing apologist in me:

He won the Presidency with no real accomplishments, why should the Nobel Prize be any different?
You mean after spending his whole life working to benefit the poor and downtrodden, graduating with honors, etc etc......
10-09-2009 , 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineedaride2
<iron>

This award couldn't have been given to a better person. He absolutely deserves it.

</iron>
Ty

When I heard, my first reaction was to laugh. It wasn't entirely out of happiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owsley
Obama is actively seeking to advance peace? Are they talking about the time he sent more troops to Afghanistan as one of his first acts in office?
Afghanistan is a just war and most right thinking people recognize this. I recognize that this doesn't include the majority of Americans.

Also, for those who don't know, the award of any Nobel Prize includes a $1-2 million cash award.

Last edited by iron81; 10-09-2009 at 11:49 AM.
10-09-2009 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
I don't think Americans fully absorbed the depths to which this country's reputation had sunk under the Cheney era. That's understandable. And so they also haven't fully absorbed the turn-around in the world's view of America that Obama and the American people have accomplished. Of course, this has yet to bear real fruit. But you can begin to see how it could; and I hope more see both the peaceful intentions and the steely resolve of this man to persevere.
Wynton - thanks for posting these links to what are, for the politics forum, unpopular views. It stimulates useful discussion.

Having said that, I have serious problems with the analysis above. Here's the issue.

The reason that the country's reputation plummeted in the last administration is because it damned well deserved to based on the actions that the US government took under that administration. Even if the country's rep has mysteriously risen because of Obama's silky voice and calm demeanor, it damned well doesn't deserve to have risen because the actions are fundamentally the same (on-going occupation of two countries, detaining people without trial because they're terrorists, etc). This doesn't address the fact that people are wrong to give him credit for changing things, it just observes that some people are giving him credit so why not a Nobel prize too? And I think that's stupid.
10-09-2009 , 11:45 AM
I am mystified by people who talk about what a joke the Nobel Peace Prize is and yet seem to have their hackles up so strongly over a prize they perceive to be a joke. The only way this makes any sense is if you think that once upon a time the prize wasn't a joke and now an august institution is being ruined. But I don't see anybody making arguments here as to how it has changed with time.

Looking back on the list of inductees and the stated goals of the award I don't see a lot that most complainers in this thread are going to like. They don't seem very likely to approve the high UN functionaries given the prize basically for being high UN functionaries, which has been going on periodically since the 40s. And many of the prizes that people in this forum will say they look favorably upon (Borlaug, MLK and other internal civil rights types) have little to do with "the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." On the stated criteria of the prize Obama probably is already ahead of a lot of those people even without having done anything other than replace Bush!
10-09-2009 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosdef
Even if the country's rep has mysteriously risen because of Obama's silky voice and calm demeanor, it damned well doesn't deserve to have risen because the actions are fundamentally the same (on-going occupation of two countries, detaining people without trial because they're terrorists, etc).
Obama certainly has made more diplomatic contact with international actors that the Bush administration spurned (Venezuela, Spain (lol), perhaps Iran.) That's a good start. The early rhetoric suggested more change on the detention front than has happened - this, for me, is the big disappointment of the administration thus far.
10-09-2009 , 11:47 AM
This prize certainly wipes away all the rumours and accusations of corruption of Chicago politicians.

Chicago is clean now. Clean and pure.
10-09-2009 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumpzilla
And many of the prizes that people in this forum will say they look favorably upon (Borlaug, MLK and other internal civil rights types) have little to do with "the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
You're giving this forum a lot of credit. We already have a thread where the contributions of Borlaug are called into question and his character generally impugned. And some in this forum IIRC genuinely think MLK is world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours and seduced underage girls and boys. You can search the RP newsletter threads if you doubt this.

Just the other day I posted that the Dalai Lama is a feudal warlord.

I doubt there's any one Nobel winner who would get universal approval from this forum. If there's one thing I've learned reading this forum for 5 years, it's that everyone is evil and terrible.

Last edited by DVaut1; 10-09-2009 at 11:54 AM.
10-09-2009 , 11:54 AM
Glenn Beck via twitter-
"Nobel Prize committee awards its 1st 'participation' trophy. gd job Prez Obama 4 participating! Who's so cute? Yooouuuu R."
Barack Obama wins Nobel Peace Prize
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