God, I hate political correctness more then anything ever

Yeah, such a bitch that we aren't allowed to say that the darkies are worse than us, even though everyone knows they are.

This just in, mike_clark hates political correctness more than child molesters. Thanks for letting us know, mike.

Also, more than killing innocent people but shockingly, more than poor people.

What? When was I for killing innocent people?

Right. They're not admitted based solely on skin color, your academic accomplishments etc. factor in as well. Should the color of your skin be a factor at all? I would argue that it shouldn't be.

What? Universities shouldn't be in the business of selecting a kid who is less qualified than another kid because that less qualified kid happens to be black, hispanic or any race or nationality for that matter.

The same goes for the other way around. If a black kid has better grades and scores than a white kid, the black kid should get in over the white kid. So I do not know where you are getting we can't say the darkies are worse than us.

There shouldn't even be a selection criteria for race/nationality on a college application. I mean WTF does that have to do with anything anyway?

Are you OK with a black or hispanic kid getting into a university over a more qualified white or asian student?

Wookie, would you be OK with an application process where the university has no idea what nationality or race someone is? Where all they see is academic achievement and extracurriculars. And if the student wishes to take an interview to increase his chances, the interviewer wears a blindfold.

Because I want an even chance for everyone.

In an ideal system, obviously no, skin color should not be a factor. The factor that should be accounted for is economic advantage. Secondary academic performance tracks more closely to household income than any other variable.

But it just so happens that, in the US, skin color is a very, very good proxy measurement for economic advantage. I wonder why that is.

But wouldn't "economic advantage" be better to use directly rather than using a proxy of any kind?

Silly anecdote: My cousin got a minority scholarship because he counts as Hispanic. He's a ginger named "Paul" but was born in Guatemala while his dad was being the CEO of a manufacturing company that moved there. Obviously we now need to scrap the entire system.

ugh...that's stretching wookie...

You did not comment on how I think universities should admit students based on academic performance, test scores, and extracurriculars...and being blind and not knowing one's color.

Would you be for this or against this? Or would you want certain kids getting accepted into school over other kids who are more qualified based on skin color?

Please answer.

[QUOTE=JayTeeMe;28876525]Right. They're not admitted based solely on skin color, your academic accomplishments etc. factor in as well.

Sure. But the problem is that skin color is a factor when it should have absolutely no barring whatsoever on considering someone.

Would you be in favor nationality/race being taken completely off a college application?

Did you read the rest of my post?

If you, perhaps, thought that there was a problem with institutional racism against a particular minority in this country, you might view a 3.6 GPA from a member of that minority as a greater academic accomplishment than a 3.8 GPA from a white kid. Before you start talking about how that's not a perfect indicator, like rich black people get the same bonus... Well, yeah. It's not perfect and nobody claimed it was. It's presumably not cost-effective to do a full FBI background check on every undergraduate application. Things like SAT scores and GPA are used because they are predictors of academic success, not because of divine writ.

Don't think of it like getting "extra points" for being black, think of it like an attempt to counteract the difficult-to-quantify negative effects of mike_clark being able to vote.

So, lets say we agree that diversity is, in and of itself, a noble goal worth pursuing. Isnt using skin color as a proxy for "unique background and upbringing which provides value to the student body" sort of....you know...racist? Isnt using socioeconomic status the same way sort of classist?

IOW, surely by diversity people dont ACTUALLY mean that they want more people who look different, right? They mean nebulous things like they want people of various heritages and cultures, walks of life, etc? Its just kind of hard to know who fills the "grew up supporting 5 siblings and a drug-addled mother in the inner city" and "had to learn a new language and culture while struggling to overcome poverty" niches, so instead we just say "More of X group, please! Diversity!"

It's presumably not cost-effective to do a full FBI background check on every undergraduate application, like I said.

Yeah I agree. But I think its somewhat acceptable to force university administrators to admit something like "We are using your black skin as a signal that you are likely a scrappy urban kid who overcame gangs and drugs." Which would be considered laughably racist if it were being done to harm black applicants.

/thread

But if all races are born equal then to value diversity over achievement is to be racist.

I don't buy it as racist really. It's just some people and universities have a hard on for the word diversity. But diversity is the most bull**** word in the dictionary.

I see it in commercials now more then anything. If you were an alien and you came to Earth to watch TV for a night, and then the next day you went walking around the streets, malls, carnivals, sporting events, etc...you would end up being really confused.

What? How? That makes no sense. However, we don't need to dwell on that, because...

Whereas just accepting that black people's lower scores is due to their innate lower intelligence and greater laziness, etc. is just pragmatic? There's a weird unspoken bit there, giving black people preference is RACISM. And not just any kind of racism, REVERSE RACISM, so not even the normal kind! Isn't everyone supposed to be equal?!?!?!

But just taking SAT score as gospel, everyone isn't equal. Black people are significantly inferior.

Of course affirmative action is racist. That's the whole point of it.

If the idea is to help disadvantaged individuals, race is a pretty horribly proxy for obvious reasons.

Believe me, I'm not a 'OMG POOR WHITE PEOPLE WHEN WILL THEY GET A BREAK' kind of guy, but poor white kids are undeniably ****ed up the ass by current admissions policies and anti-discrimination laws.

The racial climate at schools is so damn poison. Tonight at a high school football game when the white QB got hurt all the black parents were cheering because that meant a black kid got to come in at QB. OPENLY CHEERING a 17 year old kid getting injured. Makes you want to say to hell with diversity sometimes.

I don't think it is just scores we/they are looking at here. If a black kid scores a 1050 on his SAT's but has a 3.8 gpa and a white kid scores a 1410 but has a 2.9-3.3 GPA. The black kid should for sure get in over the white kid and it shouldn't even be roughly a coin flip. And I don't care if the white kid's high school is more advanced than the black kid's high school

When he got hurt before the black kid came out? or when the black kid was running out?